Why Macs Suck

That's funny as hell, and just more proof that everyone has their own perspective. A lot of people claim that Macs are so wonderfully usable and such, but they drive me up the friggin' wall. There's a downside to everything in the world, no matter how great you may think it is.

That was a hoot! Did you notice that he didn't actually do any damage to the G4? He was handling it pretty carefully. The iMac probably had a dead CRT anyway; no great loss there. Yes, Deane, everyone does have thier own perspective, but perspective is dependent upon where you're standing. I've thought about this a lot since your [rantings from last week](http://www.gadgetopia.com/post/4895), and figured out that your trouble with Macs is less with the Mac than with your familiarity with the way things are done in Windoze. You know your way around XP better than 98 percent of all users out there, and can do so many things with it without thinking. Put you in front of a Macintosh though, and it's like you were dropped in the middle of Afghanistan with nothing more than an English to whatever dictionary. You don't hate the Macintosh; you just hate how it makes you feel. Now doesn't that make you feel just a little bit better? ;o)

>your trouble with Macs is less with the Mac than with your familiarity with the way things are done in Windoze. Could the inverse be true for you?

>dropped in the middle of Afghanistan with nothing more than an English to whatever dictionary. A little off-topic, but according to this [site](http://www.afghan-web.com/language/) 50% of the Afghan population speaks Dari and 35% speaks Pashto.

>50% of the Afghan population speaks Dari and 35% speaks Pashto. That's pretty geeky, Noel; are you sure you didn't score higher than a 35? ;o) (Oh, and by the way, Dari is what Afganis call Farsi.) >Could the inverse be true for you? Definitely, without a doubt. But the difference is that I spend time in both systems on a daily basis. With me in Windoze it's more like dropping me off in Afghanistan after [studying Farsi](http://www2.rosettastone.com/en/individuals/languages/farsi/osub) for a while; I can get around ok on a PC, but it's not as familiar or easy for me as a Mac.

That's pretty funny! I like the part when he give up and start crying!!!

No rebuttal needed. Many of the things are based loosely on fact. Truth is always funny.

I think I have done some of those very same tirades. For as much as a like my Macs, I really hate Apple's policy of not having hardware based feedback like drive activity lights (is it locked up? is it thinking?). Then there is the lack of OK or Apply buttons on control panel dialogs. Oh yeah, there is the cat and mouse game of "which tiny icon" lets you add or delete or change or whatever in just about any Apple software and..... sorry. This affirms my theory that every piece of software (or hardware) -- no matter how good it is -- will always have huge, gaping holes in them somewhere.

The fact is that I'm a bad person to complain about Macs, because I don't work on one regularly. Dave is probably the most qualified person around here to say what's better and what isn't since he works with both all day long. If you did work with both all day long, I'm willing to bet you'd find that they both do pretty much the same thing, just in different ways. Can someone on a Mac do something that someone on a PC absolutely cannot? I really doubt it. I'm willing to concede that if someone took away my PC and stuck a Mac on my desk, I'd learn to live with it. I'd find other ways of doing the things I do on a PC, and perhaps find a few extra things I liked while learning to cope with the things I don't. But, I always come back to one point: would have a Mac make me instantly more productive? Um, no.

I don't know who is better or worse; and frankly...does it really matter? The reality is that if the Macs are truly far superior to Windows PCs; their market share would reflect that. Unless 90+% of us are disillusioned or under Microsoft's spell (Muaaahahaa!).

I like to think of the machine and OS as a toolbox. The real power is the software or tools. I was helping a Mac user the other day with getting the artwork for his newly recorded CD to the printers (printing press). The problem was that he was using PrintShop -- not the best choice because it isn't possible to save off a 300dpi TIFF and he didn't have a print to PDF option. He requested my help so I offered to take the provided PhotoShop templates and place his artwork and text on while holding true to his design. He agreed. I reach into my laptop case and pulled out my Dell Inspiron, which he first mistook for one of those Mac whatevers -- I'm Mac ignorant. He was like "ooooh" until he saw the "Dell" logo and it was like I just told him that I backed over his puppy. The next hour was painful. I heard things like "my Mac has never failed me before" and "my Mac usually runs circles around things I need to do." Eventually it came down to the power and features of the software and had nothing to do with the machine. If he would have had PhotoShop on his Mac we could have done the exact same thing.

I do use both all day. And Deane is right, you learn to like things about each of them. Lately I have begun to appreciate both OS X and XP for their general reliability and capabilty. Sure they can both crash horribly, but 5 years ago we had to accept nearly daily crashes in OS9 or Win98. (And those were whole system crashes, not single app crashes). But I love that I can add MP3 tags to files using the just the OS. Or see little previews of images or PDFs when I am rooting around in the file listings. I don't think market share is the only indicator of a product's superiority. (How ever that may be measured.) There are lots of other factors. I see lots of superior cars, but I drive an old Civic.

Hey Tom, That would be true if the pricing were wildly different. Most people buying a computer will spend at least $1000, which could easily buy an iMac or their new little $500 brick. I would agree with you if comparable systems were priced differently (i.e. Macs being 2-3 times more costly than a windows machine). Facts are facts, sorry for reality check. Bill G

Bill, (I just love the thought of me having a discussion with Bill Gates) I am not under any self-deception as to how the market comes down on Macs. The reason I started using them was because in the early days of electronic publishing they were the right machines. (for whatever reason) If price was all that effected buyers, we would all shop at Wal-Mart and buy the house brand. But we don't and I am happier because of it.

Some of us have good reason to like Macs and hate PC's. You know what I had to put up with when I used a PC? Windows 98-XP were murder, even with all the Antivirus, Firewall, Security Updates, etc. Linux wasn't any better. This particular distro was Red Hat. It failed to work correctly, even on supported hardware. It was 6.2 though so I am willing to give Linux another chance. I never did get a good computer until I bought my iMac with Mac OS X last year. Never had any trouble, and it easily destroyed my new PC's, even with only a 600mhz G3 processor.

I agree with Bill... furthermore, people who have trouble with Windows PC's either do not have a good firewall protection solution in place and/or do not know how to say 'no' to so-called 'free' programs that get your permission to install themselves and reek havoc on your system...i think this is more a 'nut behind the wheel error'. With a whopping 3% of the market, i don't know why anyone would write a virus to attack apple's systems (i would go after the big numbers). Even with that, there are anti-virus programs available for the mac's; which means that there must be enough of a need to develop the product). The other funny thing is that just a few years ago 'Intel' was the enemy and the macies were saying everything bad about the company (inferior this and that)...now, it is unusually quiet because apple are now using that inferior company's devices in their new systems! It is real funny to watch apple at their conferences because they can't promote their products without taking a shot at the other side...very juvenile and an interesting study in psychology! Microsoft doesn't force you to buy their hardware and software all packaged. You can build a system from scratch, buy a bundled unit or even buy a cell phone that will run a version of XP. I think people enjoy that freedom of choice and, of course, the amount of software available for the XP operating system far exceeds apple's wildest dreams. Bill and I have discussed this in detail and we agree that you guys are fun to watch and are basically fooling yourselves. So, have fun taking shots at the other side because only 3% may be listening! With love and affection... Steve B

First, macs have about 5% of the market now. Second, someone writing a virus would gain more notoriety from writing one for a mac than they ever would from one on a pc. This whole "no one writes for the little guy schtick" is old. There were viruses for os 9, when macs had less marketshare than they do now. Any programmer will tell you it is much harder to write a virus to infect a unix based system. The simple fact is that no one has been able to successfully write one. It has nothing to do with marketshare, OS x is more secure, period. As for there being anti-virus programs for macs, PC users are the reason for that. My company has to scan and clean our macs all the time, because we become carriers for viruses. While they have no effect on our systems, they can get to a client's PC. There are also Word Macro viruses which are a pain in the ass, because then our word files become infected, and when we email an attachment, it gets blocked by a firewall. Again, these have no effect on our machines, but we must deal with them because of the other 90 some odd % of virus sponges.

Okay, first of all, the reason Macs have none to little viruses is because they are so scarce -- as stated before. Don't give us this 'invulnerable' bullshit -- it can be easily done. And, anyone who spends a little time in learning how to use a PC will VERY rarely contract a virus (god help the person that has a problem with a Mac machine... you're screwed!). To me, Microsoft is like.. democracy.. while Apple offers a communist approach. Again, as previously mentioned, when you buy a Mac (you know, the overpriced $2,500+ machine with a what.. 1.2 ghz chip?), you are channelled and FORCED into purchasing Apple's products. Some people LOVE Macs because, wow, if I want to get a program I have... ONE choice! Great -- this is really simple! They really, and quite truly have not seen the light -- for some strange reason, some people like to be limited. On a PC, it's a free ball game. You choose your program, and hell, you can even (Mac users cover your ears) MODIFY it to CHANGE it! Apple is feeding off the market of people who will not commit themselves to taking the time to learn how to use a computer properly -- and they're getting rich off of it. How Apple does it is beyond me, but Mac users need to understand there is much, MUCH better bang for your buck beyond the blindfold of Apple. (I'm typing this on my Powerbook G4. Tonight this machine has failed to open about three java applets and god knows how many movie files.) Screw Apple.

Personally, I'm a linux-user; I can see the merits of a system running windows (mainly that it's simple and quite easy, even for people who have no idea what the hell they're doing). Macs, however leave me totally in the dark; I am only 17, but I have been using computers ever since my dad got an IBM XT (I was 3), and I write (simple) programs on my own to accomplish what I need done. I know a hell of a lot about computers, compared to most people. To me, using a Mac is not simple; I can never get anything done, hell, it took me about a half an hour to figure out how to open the cdrom drive on one I messed around with in a computer store, so user-friendly interface with a mac (at least OS X, I've used OS 9, and I have to admit, I kinda liked it) is bullshit. A Mac is also an inferior machine for just about any process, hell, a G3 doesn't even support O3 optimization flags (for those of you who don't know what this is, it is a compiler option for efficiency of code execution; Intels and amds have supported this flag since the days of the PII). Also, the Mac OS is now built upon open-sourced software; it's like a version of Linux that basically has all the customization features ripped from it, so that stupid users won't screw it up, however, my main purpose for switching to Linux was because I felt advanced enough a user to be able to handle being able to ruin my system at a moment's notice, and I like the ability to optimize for speed. The machine I currently own also surpasses low-end Mac quad cores in benchmarks involving Half Life 2 (and from my experience, there are 3 things that test a computer's ability: gaming comes first, then video-editing/producing (close second) and lastly, drafting), the fact that my computer runs on a singl-core processor and can outperfor a quad core (4x as many processing cores as my machine!!!) startles me, obviously, Apple's machine power is truly nothing to be excited about. I have to admit, Mac's have had their merits in the past, but now, especially with the switch to Intel processors (inferior to AMD in every way) they are a thing of the past; they should be revered as such, but come on, they really suck compared to a half-decent PC (note: mine would cost about $900 to make)

Mac's don't have virus' because they're based on Unix. Does LINUX have any virus'?? Nope, cause it's Unix, and Unix makes DOS look very pathetic. Unix was the original multi-tasking operating system, and was built for servers, thus having a lot of security written directly into the core of the OS, vs Windows was simply written as a workstation OS, no security, nothing, zip! Then later they decide to "patch" some security into it, and well to be honest once you patch something so much it just looks like one big patch. If people think it can EASILY be done, unix has been around for 30 years but still nothing... ?? And i'm sure people would want to, because Unix is running on lots of servers with information worth lots of money... AT&T is one and i have no idea, i'm sure several big companies use them however i don't feel like doing the research just to find out, cause i really don't care. Mac's are very far from being overpriced. A new iMac with a dual core processor, camera, wireless, bluetooth, remote w/ media navigation, DL DVD-RW/CD-RW, 17" LCD Widescreen display, for what, a mere 1300 bucks! And guess what, no 70 dollar norton internet security to protect it, and no 70 dollar norton systemworks to optimize the operating sysem (cause it doesnt need it, and defrags itself on the fly). Currently macs are being switched to Intel chips, therefore processor differences will be zero between a mac and a PC. Formerly, they have been using chips made by IBM of the "power" family. These chips are usually a slower clock-rate than intel, or AMD chips, but people forget a very important thing. These chips are RISC chips, or "reduced instruction set chips" which basically means they are roughly twice as fast as a CISC chip "complex instruction set chip" which are Intel, and AMD. Therefore, a 1ghz PowerPC G5 would basically equal a 2GHz pentium 4 chip. There i said it, and it's true, and tests have been done, and benchmarks, and it's been proven already so dont bother saying anything back about that. Currently a G5 is available in a dual core 2.5ghz at max, and yes, you would need a DUAL-CORE 5GHz Pentium 4 to keep up (approximatly) Which no, does not exhist. Apple switched to Intel for good reason, IBM's roadmap doesnt look so hot, and Intels looks much better. It's not about clock speed anymore, it's about the design of the chip and how it acts. Even intel admits they've hit a roadblock when it comes to pure speed. It's time to go back to basics and look at the architecture. In terms of available programs there are several to choose from, not as many windows based programs, but still, several. Pretty much any task that a windows program does, there's either a mac version, or another software vender that makes something that generally does the same thing. There are quite a few reasons that their are not as many mac apps. One being market share, obviously. If there arent as many people using them, not everybody is gonna jump in and make software. People are in the software business to make money, so their primary target should be windows. Another fact is, it's pretty easy to program for Windows. Pretty much any bob, tom, or joe can make some software. What this does is make a TON of programs available, and you have about 100 to choose from to do one specific task. This forces you to research and figure out which ones are actually DECENT and which ones will crash your computer. Because there are so many flaws in the Windows OS there's a lot of issues when it comes to programming. Compared to UNIX, you get poor software. Unix programmers have to know what they're doing because it's a lot more difficult to do it. What this does for mac users is create a smaller group of available software but at a much HIGHER quality. I've ran tons of shareware and freeware and have never had a crash or single issue with the way the software ran. If my computer met system requirements, it just WORKS, plain and simple. No crashes, nothing. People should realize they should purchase the computer that requires no maintence, and actually a computer where the instructs aren't USE, DEFRAG, SCAN FOR VIRUS', SCAN FOR SPYWARE, SCAN FOR ADWARE, OPTIMIZE HARD DRIVE, CHECK FOR ERRORS, SCAN REGISTRY, BACKUP REGISTRY, but instead, simple.. Plug it in, turn it on, use it. My life as well as other intelligent people's are worth too much to waste time with an operating system that must be babysat in order for it to operate correctly.

While there may be subtle differences, be those good or bad, between linux boxes, windows boxes, and macs, the easiest out-of-the-box experiance, usability, and general best performance is with a Macintosh. For someone who's into programming etc, a subtle difference may mean a lot which may steer them toward Windows or Linux for some particular reason but for the millions of home users, time will show that they will choose Macintosh, once properly informed and educated. (It's somewhat of a no brainer if you ask me, and several customers I speak with understand that immediately) ... (I work at CompUSA) Although there are times you cannot begin to persuade customers who were told by their uncle that Windows XP is the best operating system and to make sure and buy a computer that has that... *sigh*... Well on the other hand that gets me more items per sale! HERE YA GO! You'll need THIS, *Anti-Virus* THIS, *Anti-Spyware* THIS, *System Utilities*... and don't forget our 2 or 3 year service plan so we can have people come to your home to take care of system problems! ... $$$$!! Mac's are in fact, cheaper than PC's, when comparably equipped. (Since Mac's dont need any system/virus/antispyware software at all)

**I don't know about you, but* I just can't stand Macs either!!!*** People say that Macs are better for imaging than PCs; however there is no actual proof of that! Adobe Photoshop- a professional imaging works just as well on a PC as a Mac! Besides all that, Apple brags too much about their products, when they aren't really half as good as they may seem. [unhappy mac](http://www.prasanthnair.com/img/Unhappy_Mac.jpg)

If indeed Macs do suck, then according to [these research results](http://srom.zgp.org/), Windows sucks much, much more.

For those of you in denial about how you don't need virus protection for the Mac...I offer you these links from Norton that say otherwise (of course the religious Mac users will 'weasel' their way out of this one and blame the big bad PC guys). Antivirus... [http://www.symantec.com/home](http://www.symantec.com/home)*homeoffice/products/virus*protection/nav10mac/ Internet Security... [http://www.symantec.com/home](http://www.symantec.com/home)*homeoffice/products/virus*protection/nis30mac/index.html I'm sure these products were produced for no reason and do not add any protection to the 'impervious' mac (LOL).

Yeah, good one! Symantec says I need it, so sure, it's gotta be true. I'll rank this one right up there with the guy who e-mailed me this morning to tell me I'd won the UK lottery. Sorry folks, but I think we've just been lied to by "Mr. Truth." Or do you suppose he lied about his name as well?

What a funny coincidence; just read this list of "[Top 30 Mistakes Made By New Mac Users](http://danwarne.com/?p=20)," and the fourth comment on the post was this: >31 -- buying Norton Anti-Virus for Mac Too, too true.

I just switched to mac from pc and I couldnt be happier. pc's are shit,..bottom line.

>pc's are shit,..bottom line. And, really, how can we argue with such stunning reasoning?

I Agree, and i would like to add the fact that if or when something happens on a mac, you can do like any other PC person can do, and or fix it like any other PC person, not the same way of course, or "better", but simply different, in it's own technical way. Because some people also believe you can't be technical on a mac like a PC, but you can. And i dont mean to start some stupid fight though...because the last time i had an online "discussion" about macs and PC's it became immature...but yeah. Hopefully people can see both sides of the argument....er three sides if you think about it...lol

They say 'denial' is also a river in Africa. For those of you still in the river...read this excerpt from a recent news story on CNN... SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A malicious computer worm has been found that targets Apple Computer Inc.'s Mac OS X operating system, believed to be the first such virus aimed specifically at the Mac platform. The worm is called OSX/Leap-A, according to a posting on the Web site of antivirus software company Sophos, which said the worm is spread via instant messaging programs The whole story is here... [http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/17/technology/apple_virus.reut/index.htm](http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/17/technology/apple_virus.reut/index.htm) I'm sure that this worm could never penetrate the impervious mac and it is simply propaganda from the PC side of the house. For the rest of the macies (who are not in denial), welcome to the club. There is finally a hacker out there who had so much time on their hands to craft a worm that could potientially affect a whopping 3% of the computers out there. Too Funny!

MAC SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK THE MACS AND PUT THEM IN YOUR SHITTY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If macs don't have viruses, spywares, and all of that stuff, IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THEM, THEY'RE MAKING THEM ON THE OS THAT IS THE MOST USED !!!. If you're a virus maker, would you do a virus for mac users, which is about 3% of today's market, or on windows OS which is about 91% ??????????? Think !!!!! If Apple's gonna go one day over Microsoft, Mac users : WATCH YOUR ASS !!!!!!!

I thought you guys might enjoy this video! [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794) LOL

>I thought you guys might enjoy this video! [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794) LOL I knew we had some sharp readers here at Gadgetopia, but golly gee; posting a comment telling us about the Google video that started this thread... That shows some true genius.

I have to say that I both hate Windows and I HATE HATE HATE APPLE. I'm writing this on a windows, but I've configured it so it's a dual-boot. (For those idiot Apple users, in case you haven't figured it out, I run linux and windows.) Anyways, Apple is the most pathetic company in the world. If you look at this rage over the Ipod, you just have to laugh. "Oh, WOW! A portable hard drive attached to a mp3 player! I wish I had thought of that!" Actually, I have to admit that the OS X does look fast, but it's Apple's concept of usability that annoys me. I am glad that finally they base it on UNIX, but it's power is pathetic. I looked at the bottom of the screen, and what did I see? OH WOW, pretty colors, and a graphical interface! Oh it's so pretty. I looked for programming, terminal, perl compilers, C++, java, anything. Then I realized something. IT WASN"T THERE. I look, and I see web browser, audio player, movie player, word, etc., but that's it. I would understand if you are too much of a pretentious idiot to figure out how to run basic programs (OH NO! A terminal! Die linux, DIE!) than you might want to buy a barebones (yes, barebones) operating system. But to pay $100+? I don't think so. There are plenty of open source (free, basically) linux distros that have more than macs, AND windows. Linux rules. -- DiSiNfEcTeD

Its still personal preference. I think Macs totally sucked and i hated them, until OSX came out. I perfer Macs in most every way, but maybe thats because I was a Linux geek before that. I do know Windows pretty well, and have more Windows computers that I've built, than I have Macs and for the person posting about the "LeapA virus" you need to learn more about it. You can only get infected by it if you accept the message, click to download the file, click to open the file, then give it your administrator password when it prompts for it... And whoever is going on about RISC and CISC need to update their knowledge by about 10 years. a PPC chip is not just as fast at half the frequency of a P4... but P4s are total junk anyways, which is why Apple isnt using them.

Uhm...Mr. Doh, That is the way you get most viruses. They don't install themselves. It is kind of like this... when someone knocks on the door of your home. The onus is on you to let them in or keep them outside. Whatever decision you make has nothing to do with the integrity of you home. Your actions (or inactions) are the reason that computers get infected. Just because very few threats have been targeted for the Macs, does not mean that the Macs are more secure. It means they have enjoyed the 'lack of interest' by hackers who shoot for the big target instead of the bb-sized one. I've always thought the market-share argument is great because when you are discussing computers; 90% market share means nothing to the religious Mac users. However, if we discuss, let's say iPods...who have a 70% market share; then, the market numbers are respected. I think, for having 3% market share, the Macs get way too much attention. Windows runs the world and Macs just run away.

I have been a Mac user for a little over 4 years, and a linux user for over 7. (just estimating here). anyone here who is considering buying a PC, from any company, you are wasting your money. PC's (and yes, I've used windows for at least 10 years in my office, all the way back to 3.1) are piles of shit. this weekend, or whenever you have free time, i want you to [in your mind] make the computer look simpler. without tons and tons of cables. then take away the viruses, the trojan horses, the spyware/adware, the ugly Operating System, and the stupid looking Intel sticker. this is what a mac looks like. macs are MADE to be used by students, scientists, photographers, and other forms of art (movie editing w/ Final Cut Pro, etc.) and especially people who are fed up with the windows world. tim makes a valid, yet very incorrect point. first, he said " you are channelled and FORCED into purchasing Apple's products." tim, to put it lightly, you're a fucking dumbass. nobody can honestly be this stupid. there are over 19,000 applications available for the mac, including many games (including doom 3 and halo), and THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF NON-APPLE PRODUCTS. then, he says "Don't give us this 'invulnerable' bullshit -- it can be easily done". Sorry to disappoint you tim, but unfortunately you a very wrong. you see tim, around the early 1990s, a new OS called UNIX was born. UNIX requires an administrator password to run anything that could even be considered hazardous to the system. mac os x is literally just a UNIX kernel (thats the core of an OS) with the Aqua user interface. for example, any "virus" that contains code that asks for the deletion of files in ANY system folder. any new files put into the System folder, where all the OS and other system files are kept, requires an admin password (especially if it deletes more than one file at once). so you see tim, no serious damage could ever be done without a user/admin's consent. unlike windows, where you can literally delete every file on the computer using DELTREE in a matter of seconds. not only that, but windows has been copying macintosh since its invention in 1984. so don't give me this horse shit about windows being better because it has a more diverse range of applications, it has almost 10,000x the number of viruses. let's do some math, shall we tim? let's compare the ratio of viruses for windows and for mac os x. the estimated number of viruses for windows is around 190,000. the number of viruses currently infecting mac os x is 0. that's a 0:190,000 ratio. turns out mac wins after all. screwy ain't it? and there you have it fucktard, mac is superior to the virus-ridden pile of crap you call "Windows".

first of all, you are the fucktard, mostly because you act like you know what you're talking about when you obviously don't. I've been using Linux (one of the actual Unix-based OS's out there, along with BSD, not a perversion of a great OS like the Mac) for quite some time, and obviously Unix is way above your head, because while it's true, you need permission to delete things, it's not very hard to gain such permission, and anyone that can gain that permission on a Windows box most likely knows enough to do so on a Unix-based box. Unix-based OS's are more secure than Windows, for the most part, yes this is true, but when they are messed with, it is much harder to recover them than a Windows box... obviously, there are some trade offs. However, the Mac OS is bullshit, pure and simple. I can have exactly whatever you have on your Mac (the same looks, the same behaviour, and similar programs (often better)) for free, while you pay more than $100 for your cut down version of a real OS. Basically, the Mac OS is like this: Linux, but without any of the configurability/modification ability of Linux. Mac OS is a toy for people that don't know what they're doing. Period. If you want a toy, and you don't know what you're doing, at least use Windows, the operating system that will enable you to interface correctly with the majority of the world, not Mac OS, the OS for retards that want to pretend they know something about Unix (which for your information came to be in 1969 (you were only off by oh... 20-some years, but that's okay)). As a side note, don't call people fucktards until you're sure that you're not one...

Alex, take your meds brother...you are dillusional! Xerox invented the GUI (graphical user interface) in the early 1970's. Apple pirated it, added some 'common sense' features and called it their own and released it in the early 1980's. Microsoft build their GUI from the ground up (first as a layer on DOS, then as a a full GUI on its own) and released it in the early 1980's. Unix, then Linux, have been there for much longer (Unix since the 1960's); but have not had a GUI frontend until recently (past 10 years). Whether you like it or not, these are the facts. Xerox, not Apple or Microsoft, invented the GUI. Everybody else implemented their versions of it. In other words, Microsoft and Apple stole the GUI from Xerox. They did not 'steal' from each other. Apple had the upper hand in the mid 1980's when the brought their pirated version of Xerox's GUI to market. However, they got greedy and forced you to buy their OS built on their boxes only (which still holds true today). To make matters worse, their boxes were extremely slow. Microsoft, opted to just be in the OS business thereby opening up the hardware side to whomever could produce what was termed back then as an 'IBM Compatible' machine. Market share (which is the only objective measurement of a products' success) has agreed with Microsoft's business model. Apple has been the biggest crybaby about it ever since (even with lawsuits that were dismissed). People are not forced to buy any brand, they cast their votes at buying time on the unit that will serve them the best. Unfortunately for you Mac addicts, 97% of the world disagrees with you. Whether or not your personal opion agrees with this or not, it doesn't matter. In my opinion, if i were to buy a Mac, it had better damn well be more solid than a Windows machine. Especially, if everything is made by the same company! The funny thing is that they are not more stable than a well-configured Windows machine, I feel sorry for Apple sometimes because they try everything to bring big bad Microsoft down except competition. Have you seen their 'Switch' ads, those are hilarious and in retrospect completely ineffective. The great thing is that they produce a great media player (iPod), they should stick to that and quit trying to insult everyones intelligence by producing 'form over function' computers that have a small religious following with the mighty pastor 'Steve Jobs'. That is my story and i'm sticking to it! :) "May the truth set you free"

>Xerox invented the GUI (graphical user interface) in the early 1970's. Apple pirated it, There's actually a lot of truth to that. The book "[Dealers of Lightning](http://www.gadgetopia.com/post/26)" talks in depth about Steve Jobs infamous visit to Xerox PARC when he was exposed the very first GUI. The Mac followed sometime thereafter, and it's fairly accepted history that it all stemmed from what Jobs saw during his visit to Palo Alto. So, I get a little frustrated whenever some talks about Microsoft "stealing" the idea for Windows from Apple. That's the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

Ok, here it is, very plain, very simple. Apple is different than any plain beige/black box assembler. They're the only company to actually produce a computer from the ground up, and are very picky. Anything they produce will be made to be as state-of-the-art as possible. Mercedes-Benz is to cars as Apple is to computers. Sony is to TV's as Apple is to computers. You get the idea. If you want the benz you buy a Mac, if you are happy with a Geo you buy the PC that has plastic that doesnt fit quite correctly, looks tacky with about 20 stickers, and runs an outsourced 3rd party operating system that attempts to run correctly on about a million peices of hardware. Microsoft is a lazy company that cant really update their operating system, instead they add on to one that's been around since the stone age. Windows 95 was ok back in the days before the internet, sure it crashed sometimes but i'm sure Macs did too in the early days. Apple decided, hey, we've come to a new day in the world of computers and the internet, lets design something for the 21st century instead of this old stuff, lets rebuild a state-of-the-art OS under solid Unix programming, lets make it act and feel very common-sense, so anybody can understand it... lets make sure you won't have to run any "utility" software just to make it work correctly... with Apple you pay for high quality, anybody that owns one will tell you that. No other computer is worth the price you pay. A seven year old Macintosh will run better than a brand new PC with Windows XP service back 2, or are they on 3 now? ... Since apple controls everything since they actually make the entire computer, they are able to make sure that there NEW operating system, still in fact works well on seven year old hardware (I'm using a Blue & White G3 system from 1998 running OS X Tiger and it runs just fine) You will NOT find that with any new PC, because the operating system doesnt even work well on a brand new machine!!! You're better off paying about 300 dollars for a used iMac G3 with a 500MHz processor, because it will actually work well, for several years, without needing to even touch your dumb restore CD, or anti-virus software. - And to anyone who knows a lot about windows, and PC's (Like myself, also) Of course we can keep up our computers, we know what we're doing. You have to understand that most computer users are simply just that, USERS!! They shouldnt ALL have to learn to be very technical with Windows, and in my opinion why do the technical people bother? It's more fun to use the computer daily for hours, without having to waste precious time updating virus defenition, or running spyware scans, seriously. That's all i have to say for now.

Oh, and by the way. I've actually used Symantec's anti-virus for macintosh, just for kicks one day i installed it, just cause one day (before i was too educated about it) I thought hey, better be safe than sorry. But then after a little while i realized with a Mac I was already safe enough... Turns out that if you open the virus definitions it gives you an entire list of virus' it's protecting you from. Funny thing is, it also tells you the TYPE of virus, oh and guess what, this is the good part. As i scrolled through the entire list (very fast i might add) the entire list is 90% PC Virus'. On the right side of the type, that's all it said, PC Virus. This basically means that the Anti-Virus software will simply let you know that you've got a PC virus on your system, and whoever sent it to you in an e-mail or something by accident should be told he has a virus. A PC virus will in no way harm a Macintosh, since it's looking for Windows files to harm. This is actually a good tool if someine is running a mostly Windows network, with a few macs, this way they can be informed of an infection on their insecure PC's. Other than the 90% some of them said Java virus, and a couple other weird ones, i didnt see ANY that said "Mac Virus" cause well, there arent any!!!!

Ah, another ignorant n00b... time to pwn you Firstly, PC doesn't imply Windows... it implies the ability to be upgraded, and the ability to choose what components go into the box (unlike a mac, which will give you one choice, and never one to upgrade). Secondly, did you just insult Microsoft for using old programming? 'Cause I'm thinking that Unix has been around since oh... 1969, and Apple started using it in what, the late 90's early 2000's? Lastly, concerning the whole PC Virus thing... The term "PC" refers to one's hardware, rather than one's OS, and there is no virus that goes for hardware (it being completely worthless without software) so Symantec (a company built on sucking) got that one wrong; it should say "Windows virus" or something of the sort. Of course there isn't a "Mac virus" you worthless ineducated boob, Macs use "borrowed" coding, if anything, it would be a "Unix virus"; a "Mac virus" would imply that it applies only to Apple-based hardware, used in conjunction with their rather wretched OS (not saying that this isn't a hinderance, but it certainly isn't a virus). Also, as I pointed out before, any *nix based OS is more vulnerable to hack attempts than the Windows OS (though why anyone would even bother to hack the worthlessness of a Mac box is beyond me). So what, Windows has more viruses out there; I used a Windows box for some 10+ years without a single virus infection (except for the occasional one that comes with java coding, which sorry to say, mackie, you're not invulnerable to), and was somewhat amazed by other peoples' ability to collect viruses. I suppose it just comes down to stupid browsing. You want to look at all your "CLICK HERE FOR FREE PORN" sites, fine by me, but you deserve a couple system-hindering viruses for it. That is all for now, until another uneducated mackie requires some education, I shall be off.

I always like the 'car' analogies like the one 'Matt G' stated. The funny thing is when you buy a 'Mercedes-Benz' it will cost you a lot more than a 'Geo'. In the computer world there is no such disparity in pricing. 'Mr. Computer Buyer' can spend as little as $500 for any flavor of OS/Hardware; or they can spend as much as they like. If the consumer really wants the highest quality for the money, why wouldn't they just buy a Mac? It seems to me that if they are truly superior in quality and usefullness, there would be no decision to make and apple would be enjoying a big market share of the business. What I've learned from the religious Mac users is that ubiquitous facts like 'Market Share' mean nothing unless it supports their argument. However, to everything else in the market, this concept does apply. So, what it has come down to is a religious discussion, because facts are obviously ignored. I enjoy reading the BS that the mackies try to make everyone believe. The sad part is that they may believe their own BS! May the truth set you free... Mr. Truth

Hey it looks like Apple has finally acknowledged that they need Windows on their machines to have any chance of gaining market share (market share is that term the mackies ignore but Steve Jobs doesn't). Anyway, i can already see that the drivers that apple will write to support Windows on their hardware may be designed to be just a little bit buggy (but not too obvious). This will keep the illusion alive that Windows is unstable and error-prone while OSX is something better. Be careful out there, these guys are desperate and who knows what tricks are up their sleeves. Apple is a pathetic company! Fact is more beautiful than fiction, just as functionis more beautiful than form! Mr. Truth

I'm not that computer literate, only fairly so. I would have to say that I have had a iBook for 2 years, and it has sucked. maybe the OS is better, blah, blah, blah, but the computer itself, the actual casing? CHEAP. The CD drive has broken twice, the mouse pad doesn't work. Oh yeah, and I have gotten a virus on a Mac. From a professor of mine. Oh yeah, the battery doesn't fit. It is slow as shit. Moreover, I tried using my brother's VAIO and I loved it. So, I'm sorry. Maybe I don't "get" it, but from what I have seen, Windows is actually fairly easy to use. From what I have seen, Apple buys into the whole notion of form over function. Seriously, a suck drive? A mouse without a right click? Cheap plastic casing? I've gotten so fed up that I bought a PC laptop. $1000, 100GB hard drive, 2+ GB RAM, DVD burner at no extra charge. And I can watch different types of media online without having to get a message on the screen that it doesn't play on a Mac. Fuck you Mac. It's a big fucking cult mentality. That's all it is. I should have listened to my dad.

The friends of mine that own Mac's (by the way im a PC bloke) seem to go out of thier way to try and persuade me to purchase a mac the next time I want to buy a new computer. Like Rachel (above) said "It's a big fucking cult mentality", The way my friends always do that, it would seem that she is right. I'll be damned if noone else knows what Im talking about with Mac users trying to suade us. Its as if the big guys at the wheel of Apple slipped a few dollars bills in their front pocket for buying a Mac, and promised them that there is plenty more where that came from if they can persuade a few friends to join them. And Im not calling Christianity or other religious groups "cults", but Mac users seem to be trying to shove their computer of choice down everyones throats just as religious groups tend to try and tell us that their way of life and belief system is the way to go. There, I said it. Mac users cant deny it, and PC users can relate. But if they cant then strike me dead and tell me I cant spell.

firstly, the man you were talking to was NOT bill gates go to his damn email its like gowackoffinyourownbackyard. ur all so damn gullible. i like macs because they dont crash. running 10.4.4 doesnt have any crashes, so all this crap about it being crashable is bullshit. ive had my g5 (i want a macbook dave!) for about 2 years and it has never ONCE crashed. my friend had a pc laptop (peice of shit dell) and its big, bulky, SLOW, and its ugly. also, you can't even insert a fucking mouse without having to download 5000 drivers from who knows where. also, you said gaming comes first "computer-nerd". change ur name to "computer-poser" u have NO clue what ur talking about. i put a new nvidia graphics card in my computer and it was beautiful how it ran games. u compare ur trash dump make it at home pc to a mac? hmm maybe because u got a better card, and also u use directx, and macs use opengl and openal for most games. im surprised u didnt mention that, since its like comparing os9 to windoze xp. u scare me how blunt u are but u write a huge 5 page essay on how INCAPABLE u are of using a computer that doesnt shit all over u every other day. im also happy to say that, u said u made ur computer at home? hmm anyone can. throw together ur crappy plastic box and put a chip in it and hope it works. u cant make a mac. know why? because they are WAY to well designed and put together to have a simpleton throw one together with duck tape. GO to apple's website. you'll see how much you've been missing. they're also just more elegant looking. just more.. better?

Oh, Francis, how misguided you are. Firstly, Opengl can be used with Windows, and in fact, I have always used it over DirectX whenever possible, because it is a better Graphics Library. Secondly, I would like to point out that you never mention any proof of your extreme computer prowess (insulting everyone else's), except for the fact that you own a mac. You are also insinuating that every PC notebook is as much a piece of shit as a common Dell, which is simply not the case. All this about a mouse being impossible to insert is utter bullshit (I can make any standard mouse work with any computer without downloading a single driver). You also say that your computer runs games beautifully. I know this to be a lie, as there are possibly 3 games worth playing that will work with the piece of shit that is the MacOS. I would also like to point out that your best argument in favour of macs is that they have a pretty box. Your niavety will never cease to amaze me. Anyone can put any computer into nearly any box. The box does not matter nearly as much as the hardware inside, and even further, the software which interfaces with that hardware. You will conced that macs have wretched hardware compared to the modern PC, and, whether you believe it or not, their software is utter bullshit. It also doesn't help you much in convincing at least me of your intelligence that you write as though you grasp the naunces of the English language as well as a retarded five year old. Until next time, moron.

Is it possible that **none of you can both spell and use proper grammar??** Reading this thread makes me think of "All Your Base Are Belong To Us." Besides which, people on both sides of the argument seem to be **completely ignoring the facts.**

I went to a store the other day and, believe it or not, they had a tiny section way in the back of the store with Macs. I went to go see what the mackies are talking about and, to my big surprise, 2 of them were in character mode as a result of a system crash or failure (i've been told they never crash...somebody lied to me!). The other 3 were alive but the interface was laughable. I especially like that bar at the bottom that animates when you hover over an icon (that got old real quick). The 1-button mouse really sucks (you have to do some kind of keyboard/mouse gymnastics to do things!). Finally, the general performance was awful. I guess the priority is to render graphic elements instead of doing the task i want. It is easy to see why they only have 3% market share, they just really suck! In my opinion, Macs should never crash. Especially since you must purchase the hardware and software from the same company. If it ever crashes, there are no excuses. With Windows, it has to work with thousands of flavors of hardware, drivers and software. I have a Dell laptop for 2 years now and it has never crashed. It has shutdown programs that are not written well, but windows has never let me down. I don't know if this was a problem in the past, but it is certainly not a problem now. As far as performance, it destroys any Mac i've seen...Macs aren't even close! Is there any good database programs for the Mac? Filemaker, to me, is like Microsoft Access's competition. Great for keeping lists and simple tables, but not a serious database. I guess you can't run any world-class database programs (SQL Server, Visual Foxpro, Oracle). Or maybe there is some kind of stripped-down web interface to these products, or maybe not. I like Apple's new commercial with the 2 guys. The Windows guy is sneezing and ultimately falls down while the Mac guy is unaffected. They forget to mention that Mac guy doesn't sneeze because virus makers don't care about the a target that is about 3% the size of the Windows target. They make you believe that they are on some kind of even playing field and that viruses are attacking the equally. I guess this just reinforces the cult mentality that we have become accustomed to from that bunch. It is also hilarious to see that they created this 'bootcamp' program on their hardware. I mean, why do you care if Windows can run on a Mac PC. Im my opinion, it is their last shot at gaining market share. It doesn't seem like all of their statements about how their stuff is superior to Windows is working. The reality is that you don't have much freedom or choice in the Mac world, why is kind of sad (i feel sorry for them in a way). It is funny because you never see any ads from microsoft that use the juvenile tactics that apple is famous for. Has anyone ever seen an ad that has asked Mac users to switch? Those people are probably too stupid to use windows anyway. Score: Windows 90%, OSX 3% Mr. Truth

>As far as performance, it destroys any Mac i've seen...Macs aren't even close! That statement from the same guy that wrote the first paragraph, which gave the impression he'd never laid a hand on an Apple mouse before seeing a handful of poorly configured machines in a tiny section of some unnamed store. Yeah. Loads of credibility there.

That store was Comp-USA...Dave

Come to think of it... I dont think I have seen even ONE ad for microsoft on TV.

Fuck ALL MACS. They suck so much. Upgrade for them is hell. They are slow and unreliable. I can't see anyone enjoying a MAC ( oh yeah people who don't know anything about a PC like them as a doorstop maybee?) Anyways fuck MACS cause really when it comes down to it I would out of the job if there were only MACS in this world so fuck all you MAC users. I need to have PC's in this world to keep me employed. Thank Microsoft, Intel, AMD, etc. all the big computer companies for having problems so there are people like me to fix the shit for the every day office end user.

theyre only computers i dont know why it matters. find something better to argue about

look, Macs just suck end of story. I mean look at all the mac people out. Thier all stuck up in there crappy mac world. If u have a pc, u can easly upgrade ram, hard drive, graphics, sound, etc. When u buy a mac, its a computer in a box the is super glued shut. You cant upgrade, you have to through it away and blow another $1300 on another frikin computer. Also, Xerox did invent the gui, and microsoft and apple took it, made there own. Except jobs has to be a crap head and try 2 sue gates because he stole it from him. BS. They both stole it and made there own. Look, go to ur average company and look that the os. Windows ehh? See, there is the little corner with the macs in it. So PCs will prevail over macs, end of story. (by the way I typed this on an IBM that was made in like 2001, and its never crashed on me, even with windows xp)

I had a MAC before. And I have nightmares about it every night. Why, you might ask. Well, the question is obvious to all people (yes, that excludes you mac fanboys), MACS SUCK ASS. Macs are slow as fuck, unstable, UGLY, unreliable, HARD TO USE, AND YOU CANT EVEN FUCKING UPGRADE. Meaning, you HAVE TO buy a NEW computer every few years and burn 2-3k of your money, while with a PC, you can OC, or upgrade small parts slowly. MAC CANT EVEN RUN GOOD GAMES. All the MAC fanboys will try to feed you bullshit like : "Macs can run games with some program, we have no virsus". Dont eat that shit. Sure macs can run tetris 2D at 10 fps, but can it run other good games like BF2? No. It cant run it because : a) Its overpriced unstable hardware peice of crap can handle the graphics b) its shitty, hard to use, slow, and again, unstable OS doesnt support it. c) Game makers dont even TRY to make it for the Mac. Why? Because MACS hardware blows so much that it cant support the game. If the game makers wanted to make it support Macs, they would have to reduce the game's visual quality by ALOT. Macs dont get viruses. Why? Because no one tries or makes viruses for Macs. Why? Because not alot of people use Macs. Mac fanboys -- dont feed people that BS about being invulnerable to viruses. Windows is more "vulnerable" because most "newbies" use the comp -- meaning, they dont know how to not get viruses. All you have to do is not look up porn, dont install mysterious programs, for a home user.

Ok... here are my two cents... First of all, people who use macs often claim that its SOOO much better for them to create graphics etc etc. The truth is, any computer PC or MAC can run Macromedia Fireworks, Photoshop CS, you name it.... So whats the difference? both platforms can run most productivity tools the same. Macs are difficult to maneuver in. No one wants to have to push 3 buttons to switch applications, or get to some function. It should be as easy as a single click. MAC's sell an image. Its a pretty image, all nice curves and big screens. But the truth is that they are cumbersome, and like someone said above... comparable to a communist nation. You have to do something a certain way for it to work properly. PC's provide a margin of error and windows provides a USEABLE interface. Stick someone in front of a MAC, and they are lost for weeks. Put them in front of Windows, and they will be up and running in no time. Thats just Great you can create videos and make nice pictures. Im happy your in love with your one trick pony of a MAC. I personally prefer a tool that allows me to design graphics, make movies... and then when im done pissing around, actually get some real work done in AutoCAD LDD and Cyclone... then when im finished designing the world, I can relax to a nice game of Battlefield 2. Those on macs never really seem to get past the 'pissing around' part.

and yes they crash alot My wife works in an office of all top of the line mac computers... They all crash constantly, all the time. Shut right of. What a waste of money.

The funny thing about all of these 'discussions' is that, ultimately, we will be running most applications over the web through a web browser which means that if your computer (Windows, Linux, Mac, etc.) can browse the web, it will be able to run the application. I think Microsoft needs to position itself for this eventuality or it will end up like what 'Apple' is today. It is a huge paradigm shift and it is just around the corner! Mr. Truth

probably the exact opposite will happpen Mr. Truth Apple will be more like Microsoft. If they will even exist in the distant future.

Mac users think diffrent so diffrent that they cant think for themselves at all.. its kinda sad i know a few that cry them selves to sleep some... anyways, cheers!

First off, to anyone who said there computer, of either OS has never crashed, you are lieing. That, or the only time you have ever used the computer you're one is typing a reply in this thread. Any computer I have ever used has, whether it is Windows, Mac, or Linux, at some point crashed. Anyways, I'm in the PC camp and here are my reasons: Upgradablitiy: You can upgrade a PC's hardware, you cannot upgrade a MAC. It is impossible to dispute this with any truth, and if you do, just try it once, especially on those lamp-like ones. Looks: I personally think the Mac's design is repulsive and looks like some wannabe Star Trek device. My $50 windowed PC case with lights is much more appealing. Programs: Macs (not counting bootcamp, I'll get to that later) cannot run EXE's. Anyone who has ever run a Windows PC can understand what this means, next to no programs for Macs. Mac users may say, well Macs come with the programs we need. Sure, if you want bottom of the line products for the extra cost of a Mac. I have used several different video editing programs and none of the programs crashed nearly as much as imovie, usually after working for awhile without saving. *Games: Any game that comes out for Macs has been out for PC for several months, and that's assumeing that the game will actually come out for Mac, which it usually won't. Would you invest extra time in a program to reach 3% of computer users when it already reaches 90% of them? Viruses: Sure, PC's get viruses, you can't dispute that. But the informed PC user has good anti-virus software to combat this. The reasons Macs don't get many viruses are that, most viruses are .exe files, which Macs don't support, and I think the PC advantage of running .exe's far outweights any negative effects of viruses. Virus makers also face the same dilema normal program makers face, why would they make a program that could only reach 3% of the computer population? The Mouse: I hate that worthless, one-buttoned mouse. Once you go to a PC mouse, you can never go back. I'll discuss the "inovative" 2-buttoned Mac mouse in the bootcamp section. Price: I can get a top of the line PC cheaper then a top of the line Mac. Bootcamp: If you use bootcamp, you pretty much just admited that the Mac OS can't run anything you need and you don't want to buy a new computer so you just upgrade your Mac, and turn it into an overpriced, ugly, unupgradable Windows. This is Macs way of admitting defeat and slowly eleminating the flondering Mac OS in favor of complete Windows support. Another example of this is the more "windowsesq" mouse (it has 2 buttons).

I have only used a mac at school, and the few times i have walked into the sterile looking Mac store, There is only one thing that ever impressed me, the huge ass LCD's they use at the stores. I can say truthfully that at school the macs have crashed on me at least 4 out of every 10 times I used them. Sometimes while browsing the internet and sometimes while editing a movie and most often when writing a document and trying to save. I'm happy to say my school replaced almost every mac with a pc this year. Strangly we had fewer server crashes this year, only 3, one was a kid tried to hack it. Last year we had 9.

after reading G-man's views i have to think. What if Windows users had a bootcamp like driver to run Mac OS? How many would download and use it? I dont think many would. Teachers and business exectutives would be most of the few. Mostly because no one wants to pay for 2 diffrent os's no one want to pay for 1 which is why linux gets more users than mac. Unless you pirate it i guess and that wont help mac. Which is good :).

It is funny to watch Steve Jobs and company plan the new releases of their OS and incorporate features that Microsoft announced years before. Windows Vista has been in development for a very long time and out to beta testers for about a year now. In the meantime, osx has gone through just about every 'cat' name in the family except 'Copy Cat'. Apple enjoys the luxury of being able to bring its os to market long before Microsoft can. So, when, new features are announced by Microsoft, Apple listens closely and incorporates those features in their product before Microsoft can bring them to market. The apple supporters call that 'innovation', it sounds to me like 'imitation'. Fortunately, most people see right through this and see how pathetic Apple really is. I think the bootcamp software is Apple's way of conceding. I mean, why would the religious mac user want to put that ugly microsoft os on their system? Why would a window's user want to limit themselves to handful of medicore software when they can enjoy the freedom of choice? Sounds like Steve Jobs and his flock are talking out of both sides of their mouths now! May the truth set you free ~Mr. Truth

This my two cents on all this.... it's not the machine's hardware really, both are about the same as powerful. Nor is the OS either. My real problems is the monopoly both hold over their hardware in regards to their OS. true you could get Linux but that's even less compatible with most third party software than macOS. one of my reasons to pick windows over Macs is on the third party haxxor software... I hate Windows media player, quicktime, itunes and all that crappy software, I use other stuff like media player classic, foobar2000 and stuff. Also there's more programs for windows than there is for macs, I am a 3D animator and sorry to say this, but the mac is very limited in that field hardware wise. And PCs give you the option to build your own PC to your needs, something that makes Macs less desireable for me. Also... Since I hate monopolies and the way windows and apple handle their business bullying around smaller companies, I am proud to say I have never paid for any OS EVER...

I'm a 3D Artist and as far as I know, most big studios use PCs

i'm getting really tired of "Mackies," and how they go on and on claiming how fantastic Macs are and how they never crash and they don't get viruses. Most of these people haven't used Windows since 98. As far as copying, yes both OS's copy each other as well as other companies. As for the lack of two buttons ? two button mice are usable with OSX... they just don't come with one -- another extra to by. I've used Mac's for years at work, at least 40 hrs a week -- mostly using Adobe products -- and one of the fun things they won't tell you at a Mac store even as you're wlaking out with your brand new G5 tower with the "fabulous" new Intel chip inside and your 1,000 Adobe CS2 bundle -- is that Adobe products like Photoshop or InDesign are not written for the new Inel Architecture and although they will run -- they run slow as mollasses on a cold day if you're doing more than cropping a 72dpi jpeg. And the kicker is -- at this point -- Adobe won't have an Intel-compatible version until 2007. So tell me how great Macs are for graphics and design right now? Isn't that their claim to fame? And isn't it true that Apple didn't switch to Intel because it was the best thing to do -- it was because they tried shaking down IBM for more R&D and the same old price and IBM told em to screw themselves?

Windows Vista is based of unix idiot... lol.. Mac for LIFE!!...

PC?s suck sooo bad! I?ve been a PC user since win95, and i switched to mac because i was tired of the fucking pile of crap windows is. Whatever i need to do in windows takes about 5 more minutes than Mac OS X. Some people say that win is better than OS X cause it has more apps...bs 78% of that apps are created by a nameless lammer that only wants to feel important, plus they usually are a pile of crap. Just tell me ONE app in windows that is better and easier to use than iMovie? NONE, iPhoto? NONE, Safari? NONE (and don?t say firefox because its a fucking slooow retarded browser that takes bloody ages to load...) The only thing that pcs are better than Macs for is gaming, absolutelly true, but not cause of hardware or software, its because availability. When i try to do something on a pc it just drives me mad, because the retarded way Windows does things: Who the fuck inveted the Start menu?? It is the slowest way of launchig apps in the universe. And the system tray? Lots of useless icons that just stay there doing nothing? And the men? bar on the top of every fucking window?? What a retarded way of wasting screen space!!! The maximize button: It just makes the Windows take all the screen space, nooo it cant just adjust the size to be the best for the document, nooo, it wastes all the fucking screen!!! And of course it has no expose or something close to that?i need to move the cursor aaal the way dow and click on the retarded task bar? My Computer: That is one of the biggest pieces of shit in the whole galaxy? instead of showing all the drives on the desktop, like OS X or GNOME under linux i need to go to the fucking my computer icon and open it! Interface: instead of nice and smooth colors like in OS X it loof like a fucking smurf! Who the fuck designs the user interface of windows? A monkey using paint?? Viruses: In Windows you need to install fucking anti-everything! Anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-bill gates? you PC users suffering from asshole Windows, and Mac and Linux users surfing the web without any firewall or anti-something? Poor people? In conclusi?n, Windows= Pile of crap, Mac OS X= Nearly perfect OS.

Sounds like more lies and preaching from the desparate 3% (Alfa989) who live in denial... Windows is faster on the same hardware because it is designed to work on your task instead of alpha blending graphics to produce a ridiculous 'candy store' interface with blue 'joo joo bee' gel buttons. Function over form always wins which is why Windows has 90+% of the world marketshare. With that much marketshare you are going to have proportionally much more applications available to the windows user (yes, some of them are bad). However, a lot of them are very good and i have more than 1 choice or price point when i make my software selections. The only point you made that makes any sense is about the gaming which ties right into the marketshare point. Do you think that the 'gaming' programs are the only programs that run well on Windows? News flash! That concept applies to the whole spectrum of software, not just the ones that you cannot find for the Mac. If you don't like the menu system in windows...fine. The Mac's menu really sucks ass to me. It is always on top and the assumption is made that you never want to use that screen realestate for anything...oh no! let's all pray to mac menu...there is nothing higher! At least you can move the start menu/taskbar around in windows and you don't have this central menu that is always changing when you switch applications. I'm sorry, just like their one-button mouse, they got this one way wrong! If you don't know how to resize windows in windows, then you are a moron. Of course the 'maximize' button maximizes the application. Otherwise it would be called "Let me read this moron's mind and size the window accordingly". By the way, in windows you can grab the window from any edge and size away. At least when you maximize in windows, it truly maximizes the application over the entire screen. Not the entire screen minus that silly fucking Mac menu on top. You don't need to move the cursor to the task bar. Use the application switching keys to go between apps. And that bar at the bottom of the Mac screen that animates when you hover over it gets old real fast and even distracting...another design snafu. If you want to see all the drives your windows system has access to, there is another key combination that launches windows explorer that shows you just that. Do you honestly think that this wasn't easily available? The cool thing about windows is if you do not like the 'themed' look, you can just turn it off and have a non-distracting interface that just does you task. If you are into admiring the interface, the are thousands of skinned themes that you can install in windows. You could even get those cute little jelly buttons that pulse. As far as viruses, windows is the big target. If the Mac's were a target, they would have the same problem. Virus infection is mixture of how big of a target you are, common sense when installing so-called 'free' stuff and protection measures required because of your visibility. At 3% marketshare, the macs aren't even on the radar, the enjoy the luxury of being ignored. Windows users have to be a lot smarter about these things because 90+% market share makes you the big target. In my personal experience, my windows machine has never been infected by a virus or hacker, but that is just my experience. I don't care if you use a Mac or Windows, that is completely up to you. However, you shouldn't lie to make your religious point. The reality is that 90+% of the world agrees with windows. Computers and software are not excluded from our day-to-day buying decisions. If Macs are as far superior as you say, then the market should reflect that. People don't buy PCs because they are worse than the Macs, or they are forced to buy a PC, or that the pricing is different (its not). You guys don't like to hear the market share argument because it blows a big 90% hole in your belief system. It's fun to watch you guys squirm your way through these arguments. Mr. Truth

reduced instruction set chips were a lie to make you think that your mac was fast. It sounds really nice until you realize that macs still can't make games run decently without a lot of hassle, and the only thing mac has is that it is trying to own the young generation. PC was an evil empire, maybe the ipod was enough to corrupt apple to evil uncaring underhanded buisiness and fabricated "truths" that have brought it to a new low as being less friendly than xp pro and soon to come less dependable and process power overburdening just like the new silly windows we will soon have to deal with.

"Windows is faster on the same hardware because it is designed to work on your task instead of alpha blending graphics to produce a ridiculous ?candy store? interface with blue ?joo joo bee? gel buttons. Function over form always wins which is why Windows has 90+% of the world marketshare. With that much marketshare you are going to have proportionally much more applications available to the windows user (yes, some of them are bad). However, a lot of them are very good and i have more than 1 choice or price point when i make my software selections." Your words of wisdom truly warm my heart because i wasnt sure how to tell everyone why I prefer xp pro on a much more efficient machine that only does the work you want it to and no other ridiculous and unimpressive tasks. I want my computer to finish the task I give it without it having to make little clear pictures bounce or make a bomb shelter sign spin, and most importantly run at a high speed with more ram. macs used to be better, but that day has passed. It makes me worry when i see windows programs that are more process hungry than xp pro. We need no screen for detecting media, nor complex programs to play our music. simplifying our ways is the best way to improve on our technology. Pure processing power comes from the simpler ideas that rely on the best technology. Mac had it, but it belongs to windows now.

??Windows is faster on the same hardware because it is designed to work on your task instead of alpha blending graphics to produce a ridiculous ?candy store? interface with blue ?joo joo bee? gel buttons.?? Those ?joo joo bee gel buttons? make Mac OS X?s interface be beautyful, opposig to the stupid GUI of windows? ??I have more than 1 choice or price point when i make my software selections.?? I do too. ??That concept applies to the whole spectrum of software, not just the ones that you cannot find for the Mac.?? Are you saying than windows apps run better than OS X apps? ??At least you can move the start menu/taskbar around in windows.?? You can move the dock arround too, and the start menu-taskbar combination is the worst thing in the modern gui?s ??you don?t have this central menu that is always changing when you switch applications.?? That is the applicaction menu, and it changes the same as in windows? ??I?m sorry, just like their one-button mouse, they got this one way wrong!?? Macs come with a 4 button mouse? ??By the way, in windows you can grab the window from any edge and size away.?? That?s the shitty thing, your are going to move a window and you accidentally grab the edge and? bam!... ??At least when you maximize in windows, it truly maximizes the application over the entire screen.?? Yep, and if it is a multitasking OS, why do you want a window to occupy the entire screen, that?s silly and a screen space waste? ??Not the entire screen minus that silly fucking Mac menu on top.?? In windows it maximizes it except the taskbar? ??You don?t need to move the cursor to the task bar. Use the application switching keys to go between apps.?? I don?t want to use the bloody keyboard, i want to use the mouse, not like a 20-year-old DOS OS? ??And that bar at the bottom of the Mac screen that animates when you hover over it gets old real fast and even distracting?another design snafu.?? It doesn?t get old or distracting, it has magnification because you can put a small dock and you want to see the icons in a normal size?that?s what i call usability? ??If you want to see all the drives your windows system has access to, there is another key combination that launches windows explorer that shows you just that. Do you honestly think that this wasn?t easily available??? I don?t wanna press a fucking key combination, I Want so SEE THEM ON THE DESKTOP, not in a separate windows?that?s not even an approach to the solution?moron? ??The cool thing about windows is if you do not like the ?themed? look, you can just turn it off and have a non-distracting interface that just does you task.?? That ?non distracting? theme is ugly as fuck and makes me wanna puke?besides, it?s VERY distracting? ??If you are into admiring the interface, the are thousands of skinned themes that you can install in windows. You could even get those cute little jelly buttons that pulse.?? WTF?? They don?t pulse? anothe proof that you haven?t used a Mac at all..and if you get aqua widgets, they don?t integrate very well into the Gui? ??As far as viruses, windows is the big target. If the Mac?s were a target, they would have the same problem. Virus infection is mixture of how big of a target you are, common sense when installing so-called ?free? stuff and protection measures required because of your visibility. At 3% marketshare, the macs aren?t even on the radar, the enjoy the luxury of being ignored. Windows users have to be a lot smarter about these things because 90+% market share makes you the big target. In my personal experience, my windows machine has never been infected by a virus or hacker, but that is just my experience.?? If you were to make a virus for Mac OS X, you wouls be famous, everyone will talk about you!...It?s better to make a virus for OS X than for windows?

It isn't Windows, it isn't Apple, the Macintosh, Linux, OS/2, BeOS, OS X, or any other operating system that sucks, it's the fact that computers suck in general. I love computers, and use them every day for various tasks simply for the fact computers can do things that humans can't. Id like to see any of you try to play Aphex Twin's Drukqs by hand using nothing more than conventional instruments, or hand draw any of the modern 3-D animations with perfection. The point is, it's impossible to match the functionality of the computer. We use computers because it makes our lives easier and more productive. They happily do things for us like keep our addresses, messages, phone numbers, (cellular telephones are computers too, you know) music, office functions like word processing and spreadsheeting, and games all in one device. That alone causes alot of bottlenecks, because software has to fight with other software, AND drivers, AND the intarweb, AND the shotty programming, AND the users themselves, who are mostly not computer professionals and don't have time to fuck around with anything other than getting their work done. Different platforms are developed for different users, and that is what makes the computer market so great is because we have a CHOICE. You don't have to use Windows machines if you don't want to, you can still use Commodore 64s. Either way, if it does what you need then fine. It's when they fuck up, or the user doesn't understand the platform that pisses people off. This usually makes the user end up saying that "it sucks", and either quit using computers, or go on to another platform. Everyone else who knows their way around computers, also know that it's bound to happen. They live with what they got, hope they backed-up, and reboot/reinstall/format/take to apple store/fix it themselves/whatever and try again tomorrow.

oh man, mac, how i hate you let me count the ways... here is my honest theory on mac (hope your in the mood for a rant) firstly, people buy macs mostly because of the image that they are easier to use. (which I don't think is true all the time). macs can make somethings easy to a complete noob. they sacrifice customizability for making it less easy to mess things up. they offer many wizard and cookie cutter imovie solutions to things. which sometimes can save time -- and sometimes can cost more time, but usually give you less control in some form. some say macs dont crash as much. well for me crashing happens on both machines. in my honest experience..more on macs. from what i've seen. when a mac goes...boy it goes. it'll just shut off all the sudden and then when you run a diagnostic by holding some absurb key combination at startup it'll beep like 4 times to tell you something like the HDD is dead. though usability and smart design is such a huge part of their image. i find holes in their interface design all the time. im pretty sure this happens because so much of the design leaned towards overall aethetics. now i know there are some crazy talented people using macs, and i know that there is some crazy cool software maybe JUST for the mac. but for the most part, your options is software are pretty limited. why? because there are only like 5% minus you, mac users out there. if you are one of the rare few who obtain your software illegally at times, well that's gonna make things definately a little more difficult. another thing that happened recently is an error code -35. i think? i looked it up and it had some unix definition for parameter conflict or something. but to a noob what the hell good is that. you might as well just put "there was an error" and an OK button. why would it just gives you a code, is it that hard to put that little line of what the code stands for there? it behaves like some cheap piece of electronics. what kind of usability is that. does it come with a handy reference taped to the side? no. i've also seen icons on the menu just poof in a magical cloud of smoke when you click them..nice effect. i was also particularily fond of how my buggy imacg5 (g5freeze.com) shot out cds like a toaster when you ejected them. this mac was in the shop so much they just laughed when we brought it in. at one point the fan would zoom to sound like a rocket taking off, sometimes at startup, sometimes in the os, sometimes itd just be black and then do that. i love when a computer behaves like that, different behaviors randomly. when we'd get it from the shop it'd still crash in photoshop. ive never seen anything like that on a pc. thankfully, i have an very fast dual xeon at work that increases my productivity by like 200%, but i still have that old imac g5 as a big ipod and to the interact with the graphic guys (fonts etc...) whom have crazy new g5s (which dont get me wrong are nice machines, it has like what 2 billion fans in it? and its wisper quiet. very nice) but i'll tell you that already they've given problems (one just shut down using ae and all the users files on the desktop had disappeared). i helped my mac friend fix it. turns out the computer somehow switched to a different user or something, anyway there was a big help tutorial like 15 pages long i gave to him. 15 pages man no joke! someone already mentioned how there is a cult mentality around them -- this is true. look at apple's whole marketing angle -- to "be different" or "think different". What is different? Well I'll tell you. It is not the right way..haha no but seriously... It's like if you buy a mac you automatically become a cool, creative genious. You immediately have amazing taste in music, drive a jetta, and are interested in geopolitics. apple sells a story, like any other big brand. another thing is that mac users can be so stuck up about their macs. again like a cult. but it's like oh you use a pc? oh you are different. i think different. really we are all doing the same things. its easy for mac users to feel as though they are driving a benz while the pc guy's got a hyandai. in actuality it is a status symbol because it is more expensive. i've been a computer user for a long time. i owned a copy of wolfienstien 3d on 51/4 floppy and some 'wizard' software; started messing with batch files in DOS and eventually pascal 5.something when i was around 13 -- just so some of you know where i'm coming from. i remember my uncles mac. way before we owned a computer. it had a small weird monochorme screen that reminded me of a digital watch. i liked the HAL computer voices it would make. i remember opening folders and navigating a windows GUI for the first time. at the time i had no idea how much this new virtual space would be a part of my life anyway what the hell am i talking about..lol back to macs, i can appreciate that macs have formidable processing power maybe that they are even very stable. but in my experience, I find macs very frustrating. obviously you're immediately thinking, oh that's because you are a pc user, our macs at school were always doing weird things and crashing you need a really nice new mac to get a good experience out of the mac os and even still i hate the way files are browsed in a mac interface, im sure this is a matter of preference, but anyway i find an overall slight lag in the interface. it isn't just to do with time, but with the whole experience of using the computer. this was one of the first things i noticed when i started using a mac at work. it's this feeling like there is an extra layer between me and the computer. maybe macs are faster for processing some image apps and stuff (mind you you'll probably need to sell your car to get that mac). if they are, im pretty sure this difference is pretty negligable (like waiting an extra few seconds) who really cares. anyway from what I've heard/seen most big 3d houses use PC systems. maybe there are a few that don't. but the most, im sure they are on pcs. and these people are doing some of the most computationally intensive stuff. another simple fact is (lets be honest) you can get a monster of a pc for the price of a good mac (esspecially if you're building it yourself) not only that but you also pick exactly what you want in it. what brand, what speed, what warrenty etc... like of course its way more expensive, look at the case, ever seen the inside of an imacg5? how did they fit all that in there? you gotta pay for that design. you gotta pay for that story. - marketing isn't cheap also obviously, gaming. macs are not good for gaming. why? because most other gamers are using pcs. why? because they are better for gaming/upgrading. it wasn't until recently that flash started to look decent on macs (and I'm pretty sure its only on the new intel macs -- which i think of as macs with pc brains hehe). before that it was a joke (and still is to some of you mac users) how flash performed on a mac -- and if you read some of the developers forums working on the flash player, you'll read that it was no easy feat for them to get it working. i think one of them even mentioned about apples memory bus architecture being way behind pc :o. "That's also the reason that it will almost always run slower on a Mac than a PC since the memory bus architecture and speeds of Macs generally lag way behind that of PCs." -http://www.kaourantin.net/2005/08/implementing-blur-filter-in-flash.html in closing, i hope you've enjoyed my scatterbrained rant on macs. really they aren't so bad for what they do. they offer a simple alternative to people who want the simpliest computer they can find. if you want more control, you better go for a pc. wow now thats an essay. i guess i have a lot to say about the topic having used both. cheers! and lets all get along.

in the end your mac was most likely designed and made using pc's and pc system controlled machinery. no way a mac can do that. i would challenge anyone to find a part that is on your mac that was at least assisted partially by a mac to create/design the part. semiconductors, fasteners, pcb boards, mouldings, whatever

Sigh..guys.. Dont you know Macs pwn?!? Sheesh.. We already have 3 percent.. Its ok.. crashing 65% of the time is fine.. After all, I live in a Mac-ommumist Manifesto. We don't have viruses because people are sorry for us.. The loading only takes 20 minutes,.

I think this whole mac vs. pc thing really has gotten out of control. I fail to see why using a mac makes me anymore intelligent and/or better off than a pc user or vise versa. I speak not as a computer expert, just as a college student who falls into the 18-25 year old with disposable income demographic who has made the following observations within the enclosed bubble that is the university campus: 1) On campus anybody doing/learning any sort media editing, and the labs that provide computers for video editing, use macs. 2) On campus anybody doing/learning actual programming (C++, java, etc), and the labs that provide computers for programming, use a pc usually with a windows OS. 3) When people talk about upgrading they're pretty much always pc users and are talking about just putting in more ram or getting a better video card. 4) Everytime I've heard or been part of a discussion about online gaming the computer of choice has always been a pc with windows. 5) I've never heard or seen somebody run multiple OS on a mac 6) Most people I've seen down at the tech help center are windows users 7) Pleanty of people I've talked to have mentioned how the computer they are using is a high end pc they built themselves at a fraction of the cost of a pc or mac bought in the store. 8) I've never heard anybody talk about building a mac to personal specifications. 9) I know people who have pc's but don't run windows on it, but another OS such as linux or unix. I've never even heard of a mac owner who does not run a mac OS on it. 10) Nobody on campus really cares if you're a mac user or a pc user. People are more interested in what you do with your computer or find on the internet than what OS you run. There just some simple observations I've made. Draw your own conclusions. I honestly believe that if one system really is superior to the other then eventually we will see that system become the system of choice. I've used both and don't really have a preference towards either. I believe my roommate put it best when said, "If you use a mac, you're a faggot. If you use a pc, then you're a pussy."

I think this whole mac vs. pc thing really has gotten out of control. I fail to see why using a mac makes me anymore intelligent and/or better off than a pc user or vise versa. I speak not as a computer expert, just as a college student who falls into the 18-25 year old with disposable income demographic who has made the following observations within the enclosed bubble that is the university campus: 1) On campus anybody doing/learning any sort media editing, and the labs that provide computers for video editing, use macs. 2) On campus anybody doing/learning actual programming (C++, java, etc), and the labs that provide computers for programming, use a pc usually with a windows OS. 3) When people talk about upgrading they're pretty much always pc users and are talking about just putting in more ram or getting a better video card. 4) Everytime I've heard or been part of a discussion about online gaming the computer of choice has always been a pc with windows. 5) I've never heard or seen somebody run multiple OS on a mac 6) Most people I've seen down at the tech help center are windows users 7) Pleanty of people I've talked to have mentioned how the computer they are using is a high end pc they built themselves at a fraction of the cost of a pc or mac bought in the store. 8) I've never heard anybody talk about building a mac to personal specifications. 9) I know people who have pc's but don't run windows on it, but another OS such as linux or unix. I've never even heard of a mac owner who does not run a mac OS on it. 10) Nobody on campus really cares if you're a mac user or a pc user. People are more interested in what you do with your computer or find on the internet than what OS you run. 11) A majority of the students and faculty on staff use or own pc with windows. 12) In the computer science class I'm taking mac users have to use the computer labs because the program we're using, MATLAB, is not available for macs yet. These are just some simple observations I've made. Draw your own conclusions. I honestly believe that if one system really is superior to the other then eventually we will see that system become the system of choice. I've used both and I can't really see why one is better than the other. I believe my roommate put it best when he said, "If you use a mac, you're a faggot. If you use a pc, you're a pussy."

6) Most people I?ve seen down at the tech help center are windows users * quoting Arsienna If you brought your mac to the tech help center on campus they would send you right back from where you came and hand you the mac tech support hotline number and a list of dealers that fix macs (if you're lucky) - they may also give you a small donation

I would tend to agree with Arsienna because we PC users are what we eat, i assume the mac folks are what they eat, as well. The free market is the real gauge of success. Everything else is a religious "Should have, could have, would have" point of view. Judging by the way the mac community cannot promote their products without bashing the other side shows just how childish their whole 'sect' is. Of course, when we talk about iPods, then the free market system works again. Don't believe those mac faggots, the truth is on the 'P' side! Mr. Truth

>Judging by the way the mac community cannot promote their products without bashing the other side shows just how childish their whole ?sect? is. Really now. Seems to me this entire thread is PC users bashing on Macs. I see reams of similar drivel everywhere on the 'net, but precious little going the other way.

**I don't like Macs** Why you may ask? Because I like compatibilty. I don't give a shit about viruses -- you can avoid that problem with a few clicks and downloads. I've used a computer for 5 years now and as long as I be careful and avoid things like "coolpics.exe" then I'll be set. People who use the comparison of how many virii Windows gets compared to a Mac are just advertising their computer illiteracy. I'm sorry but anyone who can think somewhat logically can avoid getting a virus. Also, someone said Macs are easier to use.. This may not always be a good thing to the advanced computer user. Because it's easier to use, this is usually paired with the idea of less options. Complicated things have more options and choices. If you can sit down and RTFM, then you can do much more with a PC. Another thing is graphics. I don't know who started the rumour that one can do more graphics editing on Macs than PC's, but it sure is untrue. The leading graphical editing program as of 2006 is Adobe Photoshop. Last time I checked, Photoshop was available for both Mac and PC, and they aren't much different. It just seems that when I use a Mac, I have to go slower and make sure not to "hurt" it. I don't like working with such delicate technology, when with Windows, you can swap out RAM chips, Graphic Cards, Motherboards, etc.. with barely any computer knowledge. All you need is a screwdriver and some rubber to ground yourself. My choice OS's iare Linux SuSE and Linux Xandros. I have to admit, Windows XP is rather buggy and can cause a lot of grief, but so can Macs. Using a Mac is like watching Teletubbies -- I feel that I'm being confined and over-protected. Windows may be like watching Rambo, but at least I can go about doing whatever and not worry about compatibility. Whatever, flame me if you want, this is just my opinion and I'll never come back to this page again.

haha vince, i love your analogy of teletubbies and rambo. i experience the same thing. macs to me are fisher price. they are meant for seniors and toddlers. another thing is that mac users (typically not all) are not doing as complex computer activities - , they typically aren't programmers or 3d guys (again typically) but graphic artists or illustrators -- dont get me wrong i have the utmost appreciation for this art but i dont bash macs b/c they are good tools for graphic artists -- i bash them b/c well they are easy to bash and b, b/c a lot of mac users bash pcs because they are intimidated. and in general they suffer from an inferiority complex because of this. they see their pc buddy start coding mad stuff and browsing around their OS at near the speed of light and they're like shieet....pcs suck man... next time you see a typical (not 1 in a million super mac geek) mac user watch them use the os. it's like watching a tutorial at half speed. ive seen my buddy use his mac he moves at like 1 fps. lol. and if anything goes wrong or he needs to change file permissions or networking or something. he's like huh? how do i connect?

mac = ignorance to the rest of the world, no one uses macs for a reason they suck. Thats all you need you know

grab a hardcore tech (i live with my mom)(star trek for life) nerds who know something about computers and you will find they are the ones bashing macs. grab an unemployed left wing pot smoking tree hugging flower child hippy pussies and theyre the ones owning macs and bashing pcs, give or take a welfare cheque.

hey man, I'm a hippy dude and I friggin hate macs. when I'm high they are even more annoying. mac is a fischer price toy it's not for real computer geeks. besides they are too pretty to really work that well. i also wanna punch that guy from the commercial in the face!

its also with where the money is. ill be hard pressed to find a better way to make money with macs other than to sell them, example: look for ONE company who uses macs as their primary computer and are making more than macintosh itself, or even steve jobs.

MACS ARE THE LAMEST PIECES OF **** EVER!!! A day in mac HQ: ok guys, lets get to work making a buggy operating system even worse! take that critical system config app and bury in among a bunch of shiny things! take that ability to actually manualy turn the system off and hide it somewhere! take all functionality and speed and waste it on making the interface look nice macs are all looks and no function

@Matt G (page 1) You are so right about CISC and RISC. Sadly, though, you have gotten them mixed up. PPCs are CISC, while AMD/Intels are RISC. Google it if you want. You'll be surprised at what you find. Also, CISCs need 2.66 times more instructions than RISC to execute the same task. Furthermore, a G5 can only execute 4 instructions per clock cycle (inst./clock), while Intel can pull off 6 and AMD can do 9 inst./clock. That makes and AMD able to execute 9/4 times as many instructions per clock, all the while being 2.66 times more efficient. That comes out to 5.985 times the efficiency. Therefore, your super-duper brand new G5 2.5 GHz chip can be topped by a 418 MHz AMD chip, produced in late 1998. Pwned!

pwnedx!!!

Macs are for kids and the computer illiterate. Hence it's huge single click button... so you don't get confused by two buttons and a scroll wheel. Sure the visual style on Macs is nice but anyone with WindowsXP can fairly easily download and apply new visual styles, there are literally thousands. The only thing I like about Apple are ipods... but soon I think Microsoft is releasing something even better.

Please, make it stop! Five pages of whining and recitation of age old myths about Macs is more than a guy can bear. Single button mice? G5 processors? Buggy OS? Microsoft releasing something better than the iPod? Good Lord, give me a break. Do some research before you start slamming or it sounds like ignorant ranting. Oh wait... that's what it is!

I think macs look good and almost bought one. I have since lost all trust in Apple because of repeated false advertising. [http://www.macworld.com/2006/01/features/imaclabtest1/index.php](http://www.macworld.com/2006/01/features/imaclabtest1/index.php) [http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Mar/bma20040329024483.htm](http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Mar/bma20040329024483.htm)

MCSTEVE: "Please, make it stop! Five pages of whining and recitation of age old myths about Macs is more than a guy can bear" Single button mice? the stuff fairytales are made of G5 processors? i couldnt find one if i tried Buggy OS? no way? Microsoft releasing something better than the iPod? i think a $100,000 supercomputer can do everything an ipod does and i can get it NOW!!! what am i waiting for?

Apple should release products more befitting their psychology... iDontKnow = new business marketing software iAyeCaptain = religious software by pastor Steve Jobs iMAnIdiot = mac user reference library for arguing with PC users iFlow = the single and only workflow program available iUD = hardware device used to 'birth' the disks that get stuck iCeCream = new GUI elements to compliment the candy store interface iKnow = realization that you have no choices iSuck = realization that your brain has been washed May the Truth Set You Free... Mr. Truth

Regarding the Mac virus controversy, I make reference to the incomparable, infallible wisdom of one Pinky and The Brain. Namely, in a plot to freeze the monetary assets of the entire global population, the plan was to disable people from reaching their wallets, provided they were leather. At the question: "What if they have nylon wallets?", Brain simply stated "Those people don't have money." How true. If you're reaching for a nylon wallet, odds are it'll come with some moths. Now, in terms of Macs, why in the world would I want to write a virus for Macs? Ooh, huzzah, I may be able to keep Billy from tweaking photos from his weekend at Comicon, which if he's good, could have him licking up the backside of one Cat-dressed figure to be named later. Money moves through windows. I would like to challenge any hacker reading this thread, and I know you're out there. (Lol, look and the no0b thinks we're still called haxX0rs. Get over yourself.) The challenge is: write a Unix virus, mostly aimed square at the nice little people with their Aqua cubes (add-on hardware, what's that?) just to wipe the smug little iSmirk off their faces, and to bring them back down to reality, where any system, regardless of architecture or codebase is vulnerable. You know it's true. There is no perfect system. Hack the Macs, and bring the world into perspective. I implore you, ye 1337. HACK THE MACS!!!!

Yeah, go for it. And hack the Linux boxen while you're at it.

I run a computer lab full of imacs, and out of the twenty machines, at least a quarter of them freeze up once per class. I have also owned a mac, that i returned after one month because it froze constantly , and was brand new....for stability and viewing web sites, pc's are way superior! anyone that thinks macs are better have never tried a pc, obviously...

I HATE HATE HATE, macs, or anything related to Apple, YES that includes the d*** ipod. Macs are not designed for games. You cannot play games to my knowledge, or atleast not effectively on a mac, games like bf2, and all that. AND NEVER EVER EVER put windows OS in a mac, that makes me sick. Plus, look at that thing, how are u supposed to upgrade it, without replacing it, with a pc, all you do is give it a new card, or whatever. Our school is littered with macs...... and unfortunately i've had to use them, and often. They lock up often, and have issues running things like powerpoint, which i want to use. Macs MAY (not saying they do, cause frankly to me, i don't think they do) have an advantage in graphic/video design. But woopty freakin doo. Not everyone is into graphic design. Some of us like to play games, or stuff like that. And the retarded commercials they have, obviously they don't know what pc's are actually made for. They show the "pc" being all tired of listening to music and playing GAMES, all pc's want to do is "balance check books." Ok if pc's didn't like doing music, why the heck do they make Amazing good sound cards, and $500 speakers to listen to music on? AND PC'S WERE DESIGNED FOR GAMES.

i am a very seasoned windows user, since the company i work for uses a windows- only program for our accounting. i have 2 brand new dell XPSes and a year old alienware. I have excellent anti-virus software, and i still have problems very occaisonally. (recently i had to system restore one of the dells because of a trojan that decimated it- wiped out 190 gigs of documents, programs, and even family photos.)

I laugh at mac commercial too. 5% of the market after all this time? Speaks for itself. mac sucks. FACT.

haha you got a trogan that wiped out 190 gigs of documents? BS! with good antivirus software too? complete BS! buddy you're full of it. what kind of programs are you executing on your system. cool_pics.exe? lol.

Like some have said before, Market Share speaks volumes. It's as simple as that.. If Mac's were much better like some of you say, there would be significant market share to represent that. Same goes with Linux OS's.

When Apple (and its followers) speak, its a lot of double talk. From one side of their mouths, they say the Windows PCs are the worst...and yet over 90% of us continue to use them. Of course, they were saying the same things about how inferior the 'Intel' chips were until they started using those same chips in the macs. So, 'Intel' is now a good guy (its ok for you mac guys to like them now). At the same time, the other side of the mouth is saying...'Hey, our machines are capable of installing OSX and Windows'. Why would you want to install windows on a mac? ...because nobody (except 4% of the world) takes anything Apple says seriously and we are certainly not buying (literally) into it. This is their way of begging windows users to try their machines because nothing else has worked thus far. So when i want to get a laugh, i'll check out Apple's latest 'campaign' against bad 'ol Microsoft and see just how juvenile they are...too funny. I kind of like Apple's 'campaigns' because we all get these amazingly well-produced, funny commercials to enjoy and laugh at. Thanks Apple... May the truth set you free... Mr. Truth

I found a great ad that tells the truth... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qYA2SU59cg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qYA2SU59cg) Right on the money!

The truth? Please. The biggest difference between Mac commercials and PC commercials is the response: For the PC, the response is a great big collective yawn. For the Mac, six pages of comments -- and counting, on this blog alone -- from too-easily-insulted PC geeks. Name one memorable PC commercial. I can't. Because there aren't any. Apple's commercials have served their purpose and have served it well.

i work in advertising. here are my 2 bits. who would pc make a commercial? who would make it? what a stupid thing to say. maybe dell? every little manufacturer and third party hardware maker in the world? i dont think so. look at dell's recent campaign, they take the angle that you can customize your pc however you want ("your fingerprints are all over it before it's shipped" - pretty nice tag i must say). even though im not a huge dell fan. you can't help but feel bad for apple when at the end of the commercial they say $649 with a 17" and more than enough power than the average user will ever need. try to get a mac for that much. you can maybe get an imac for like 1200 but any mac user will tell you that imacs are crap. i know all the insecure mac users will scream and yell oh yea but it'll get virus' blah blah.. go cry me a river. if you are still ranting this junk about virus and blue screens, you're terribly misinformed. ive used both platforms extensively and trust me they BOTH CRASH. and now that macs have a pc intel brain, say hello to virus also. i'm talking new G5 intels too (which might i add don't work for beans with the new adobe cs suite (who's better for creative work now?). in the end. i find mac commercials stupid. even if i was a mac enthusiast. which im clearly not. bashing the competition went out of advertising long ago, with pepsi and coke. like come on, what worse way to show insecurity by pointing the finger in the other direction. dell doesn't need to do this. - pcs have like 90% of the market. look at how sony countered the campaign with their vaio campaign. check it out. pretty innovative. short and sweet, simple, no bashing. instead they attack the identity issue. that somehow by buying a mac you'll be cool and somehow avoid being that geeky looking funny comedian. you shouldn't need to spend so much money on advertising if your product is good. in the end you watch, either macs will become more and more like pcs (already are: via intel via bootcamp) or they will become extinct. it's really that simple. p.s. to those pretentious mac users that pick apart posts for grammer and spelling to attack pc users as stupid...omg...GET A LIFE!

they only reason why mac commercials are remembered is because of their controversy. and to be honest, most people know they are bull. mac is targeting those people that they always have. people that know jack all about computers. why did they become proficient in graphic design etc..? well b/c they made a super simple os that let graphic designers concentrate on graphic design. do they play games, do they do 3d, do they code php, do they build their own computers? maybe, but most likely not. mac is a fischer price pc. plain and simple. ilife = simple. is it actually easier? i dunno, not for me. but i didnt grow up on one. the link the truth provided shows some really great motion/creative work. but as somebody said. who would do a PC commercial? there is no one archnemesis to apple, PC brand. maybe dell as he/she pointed out. but there are many pc brands. hp, dell,sony, compaq..etc.etc.. and none of them feel the need to bash mac. though im sure a lot of us wish they would. if only to wipe the smug look on that 'cool mac guy's' face.

You are a dumbass, Matt G. I am an experienced mac and pc user and I must say you are completely biased against PC's. Mac hardware is ultimately inferior and will never surpass PC's.

I wonder if everyone realizes that the majority of Mac owner's KNOW they aren't great for gaming. The Mac user's I know are business types with graphic design and video production. I bought my iMac with the full knowledge that it doesn't play games -- I'd use my AMD Athlon XP setup for that! I have 4 PCs at home, 2 with AMD procs and 2 with Intel procs. I've used everything -- Linux, Unix, HP-UX, MS-DOS, Windows for Workgroups 3.11 to XP Pro and Vista. The Mac OS is VERY simple to use and it looks great. I've wished that Microsoft or another company would develop an OS that looks as good and integrates everything as well as Mac does. Microsoft tries, but they charge too much for most of their software and it really doesn't integrate with everything as claimed. I like both, but for different reasons.

I ran Windows for a long, long time (since Win98 SE, actually). And sure, it crashed a lot, and the programs had to be kludged together to work right, but I think everyone is ignoring one thing: Windows (and its predecessor, DOS) was built as a single-user operating system. No networking to other computers, no Internet connections, and certainly no spyware. And in that role, Windows is a fantastic OS. I miss the days when I could walk into my bedroom, hop on an aging Compaq desktop (with no Internet connection) and use a stable installation of Windows XP that did all I needed it to do with a minimum of difficulties. But Windows is a terrible networking OS. As almost anyone will tell you, it just wasn't designed for networking. I spent several days going around Google (you really think I'm going to trust Microsoft for instructions?) looking for instructions, advice, and reassurance that trying to hook up the computers in my house to a network was indeed a Good Thing. (And this was with Windows XP, which is supposedly the easiest Windows to network.) UNIX, Linux, and the UNIX-based Mac OS X are all built with networking in mind. UNIX was originally developed so that multiple people could share computing resources over a modem. As any network technician will tell you, maintaining data security and integrity is probably the most important thing to do on a computer network. So the makers of the various flavors of UNIX designed such security mechanisms into the OS from the start. By implementing features such as file permissions, user/group denominations, file ownership, and a fine line between user/superuser, the various UNIX OSes were secure from the beginning. Windows, until the advent of the NT series (and, some would argue, in spite of the rise of NT), had (and has) no such restrictions. Sure, there's the Administrator/Restricted User line, but if you want to use a program that wasn't designed for Windows XP (and some that were), you have to run your system as Administrator or a user with the same rights. That (plus some social engineering) is how people get into trouble doing stupid shit on their Windows computers. I'm not saying that someone proficient in Windows would commit such stupidity -- I used Windows for damn near seven years and only got a couple of viruses and no spyware whatsoever -- but the average Joe or Jane sitting down at a computer for the first time just isn't going to know better. It's not a defense of a computer-illiterate computer user. It's just the way things are. Apple is a very progressive, very wise company. In spite of their low market share (but likely fairly large installed base -- I'd be optimistic and even venture to say that 15% of installed computers are Macs of one persuasion or another), Apple has made some very, very good decisions over the years. And though their products have the reputation of being overpriced, I compel someone to show me a Windows laptop that has gigabit Ethernet, Wireless-N, a magnetic power cord, S/PDIF, and the best laptop keyboard I've ever used, all for $1100. You're simply not, I don't think, going to find a comparable notebook to the base MacBook for a similar price. I love my MacBook to death, don't get me wrong. It's a joy to use and I look forward to doing my work in Mac OS X when I get down to business, so to speak. (I'm a computer science student and spend a lot of my time in Debian Linux, which is installed in dual-boot with Mac OS X on the very Mac I'm using right now. So much for Mac users not being tech-savvy.) But looking at how Apple does business -- locking you in to a specific type of hardware (Sure it's an Intel chip -- Apple doesn't even use Intel's logos with their sales material!), with a specific OS (assuming you lack the technical savvy/Google skills to overcome that), and with specific programs (iLife, iWork), closing off your data to programs outside that norm, and cultivating an image of superiority over PC users with their Get a Mac campaign -- my first Mac is my last Mac. It'll also be my last laptop -- when the time comes that I need a computer, I'm going to build it myself (or get a Sun workstation if I can afford it) and dual-boot Debian Linux and a BSD. In short, Macs have fantastic hardware, and the user experience is unparalleled, but my experiences with Mac and Apple have shown me that any company that portrays operating systems as entities to and from which a person "converts" should be closed down and sold to the shareholders.

Windows Vista is the best operating system to EVER come out. OMG! We're not in Kansas anymore. Mr. Truth

"In short, Macs have fantastic hardware, and the user experience is unparalleled, but my experiences with Mac and Apple have shown me that any company that portrays operating systems as entities to and from which a person ?converts? should be closed down and sold to the shareholders." well put.

I love my Macbook. Any little jackass can come up to me and say it sucks..whatever. It's just a computer guys. All this flaming and bullshit over OS's is ridiculous. I've been a long time Windows user ( I got my Win 95 box when I was 12). They've been ok machines, but over the years as I became a more seasoned user I grew more and more irritated with the constant little annoyances that came with Windows. I still think Mac OS X is a superior OS. It's far more pleasant to use day to day, and I never felt the supposed anemic software support. I never really cared for the ads, but whatever. It's just a commercial. Screw TV anyway. Anyway I'm not going back to PC's unless I need it for work. Every computer I ever keep in my house will be macs, not because of some cultist nonsense or I love Stevie, I just prefer these computers over Wintel boxes. The End.

I don't think anybody really cares what anybody else uses (i certainly don't). I think the reason we have this many pages of dialog is not because the Mac's deserve it or that they are so controversial. I believe that most of us are addressing the campain of lies and BS coming from their side. The fact that we are debating it, means that they are successful in keeping their name in our heads... touche for Apple! I think their commercials are funny, but wrong. It is interesting to see just what they will say next or what angle they will devise. Of course, telling the truth is not an option, so they resort to half-truths and false representations. I saw a commercial the other day where they spoofed the Windows 'Defender' security feature in Vista. They were making it look like you have to answer questions all of the time, which is not the case. The fact is, if Windows detects something out of the oridinary...meaning malicious attempts to compromise security; you will be asked if it is ok to allow the activity. If you answer with 'Always allow this activity...", you will never be asked again...simple stuff. The commercial (of course) skips this little detail and makes you think that you would have to answer every time. If you are browsing safe sites and running safe programs (meaning that you own a legal copy), you will never be asked anything. Macs are at about 2% of the market right now which translates to "Who cares" from a hacker's perspective. Deny it all you want; but just like market share, it is a fact of life. When Steve Jobs pulls his head out of his ass and smells the shit he has been shoveling maybe he will try to compete and gain market share. But, look out, once Macs get to double-digit market share, its hacker time. We "Windows" users will be the first to welcome you to the party. May the truth set you free... Mr. Truth

anyone who buys a mac for anything remotely productive/business should know they are way over their demographic. while failing business class i heard about some buzz word called target market. heres a top secret insider document leaked from apple HQ: Target market: HIPPIES

I'm gonna switch to a mac when the automotive industry does, or the military (any military in the world), or Point of Sale systems in any large business, or any large bank.

Mac -- Office 2004 PC -- Office 2007 All Microsoft has to do is pull the plug on Office and Apple would die overnight. Apple's a good company for an overpriced MP3 player or a computer with hand-me-down software. I have a MAC and I like to browse the 4ft section of software at Best Buy. 6 rows of software for the PC is just too much.

A. Mac's are not faster than windows computers. If the clock speed for a mac reads 600 MHZ, then it is 600 MHZ. As somebody pointed out earlier, Mac OS is based on UNIX. Windows is designed as an "Ease of Use" software system, or rather a utility machine. When you turn it on, it's supposed to load everything you'd possibly want to use during that session (unless you turn it all off of course). This makes some software loading go like lightening, but when you have enough programs running at once, it's really gonna slow your machine down, hence the "My mac is faster than your windows" crap. The mac being faster is purely incidental. Just that without an experienced (or picky) user running a windows computer, it has a lot more to do than a mac. B. MACS ARE EXPENSIVE............Why? well...because their hardware is licensed soley by Apple. I've worked in retail for a long time and there are very few stores which Apple will allow to sell their products. Best Buy has OCCASIONALLY seen a mac or two...but not often. The lesson: If you sell it...you price it.... C. (Now I'm going to tell you something some of you might not like to hear, but it's true... [if you don't already know it]) The Intel Duo Cors......Do NOT run at twice the speed they say they do. Dual Core technology is essentually Hyper Threading with a new label (a selling tactic). It doesn't perform any better than the HT Pentium 4's. If it says it's a 1.6 GHz...then it runs at 1.6GHz. Not 3.2 (even though Intel would like you to think it does).

True, the Core 2 Duo processors do not double the processor speed. Obviously. However, take a look at the FSB some time. If you don't have any idea what I just said, read a book. It's not always about MHz or GHz or THz (I wish).

To all of you who say that Macs don't get viruses because of their low market share: [http://technicallytrue.blogspot.com/2006/05/mac-os-x-virus-contest-year-lateran.html](http://technicallytrue.blogspot.com/2006/05/mac-os-x-virus-contest-year-lateran.html) [http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/95175/apple-mac-pro-is-crowned-the-fastest-pc-in-the-uk.html](http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/95175/apple-mac-pro-is-crowned-the-fastest-pc-in-the-uk.html) Yeah, fuck you! PCs suck!!

Alfa989 : "Yeah, fuck you! PCs suck!!" cant argue with that stunning logic , genius. "The Intel Duo Cors??Do NOT run at twice the speed they say they do." thats true but the two cores can process 2 diffrent things at once reducing the strain on your machine you still run at the same speed basically tho. reasons i dont like macs .. they have NO PERSONALITY. you go to the mac store and they all look the same they are all white and glossy, or brushed metal... i just think nothing beats the look of a handmade modded pc. it has the personality and all the features and componets you want in it.

I'm just gonna be perfectly honest about this one. I'm no computer whiz or anything and can't say I know the finer points of advantages and disadvantages to both systems but I'll offer my feeling on why I prefer macs. First off is the large amount of open source software. Granted, Windows obviously has its fair share and if you know enough about programming usually porting something can be done. However, I'm not really a power user, and the people who write code for Macs are obviously snobs about their programs, so instead of getting an ABUNDANCE of programs that you have to pay for that are, due to the desire to get products out to make money, often buggy, you get some really slick programs with GREAT interfaces. In all reality I could relate this whole thing to Apple interfaces. I've used both and have been JUST enough of a semi-computer geek to see the differences. And really it all boils down to the ease of use. People can complain all the time about the expense and hardware upgrades. Well... fine whatever I'll give you that. However, after using it, I really don't like Windows and am now a converted and relatively happy Mac user. I think if a lot of windows users were sat down and force fed a lesson on Apple Scripts and certain resources for all the freeware, then I think there would be less animosity towards Macs in general. There are probably holes in some of the things I'm saying because as somebody else in this forum said, both computers do pretty much the same thing. However, as I said, I just think because of the fact that most PC programmers are probably Linux users making programs for Linux, a lot of the really good freeware on the other side is more readily available for Macs. Therefore as I've scoured the internet for freeware for both OS's I've discovered the process on Macs a lot easier.

Everyone should check out Microsoft's innovation called "Microsoft Surface". It puts anything that Apple has to offer to shame. I'm sure Apple will find a way to take credit for the idea somehow...LOL [http://www.microsoft.com/surface/](http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) May the truth set you free... Mr. Truth

macs SUCK, video is too long and a bit childish. I like Macs, in fact, I switched our office to macs replacing 20 Windows machines with a mix of powerBooks, macBooks and iMacs. Nevertheless, macs SUCK. The upside is no viruses, zero administration, unix network automation. The downside is that Macs don't work as a multimedia machine, try playing live video from bloomberg, it will not work unless you have an older mac running MS Media player 9. 50% of video played on the net that is not flash based will not play unless you install extra software and still you will not be able to have the windows experience when it comes to using your computer as an internet multimedia system. Macs crash as often as windows machines since Apple switched to intel makeshift hardware. A dell or an HP will have the same exact hardware for about 75-50% of the price of a mac. my next machine is going to be a windows machine for sure. And let's not talk about the worst customer care in the word, schmucks will be the only word I have in mind for Apple's support staff. "So you did not pay for support, I cannot help you sir, good bye." Well apple, stop selling below average hardware with a shinny apple logo and go back to your roots.

Hey Breck: Guess what? Those older Macs also have "extra software" installed to run those pesky wmv files. For newer Macs, try [Flip4Mac](http://www.flip4mac.com/) to play wmv files. It's free & works great. Also, don't expect a much better response from any other computer manufacturer if you call for support outside of the original warranty period and haven't paid for extended service. You can gripe all you want about Apple, but you can't seriously fault them for that.

I've read some brilliant posts here and some rather doltish posts here. Not being a troll I really don't feel like nitpicking on peoples spelling or reducing myself to childish name-calling, I just wanted to point something out and I really don't feel like reading through 7 pages of "I'm right"..."no, I'm right" to make sure no one has pointed it out. To those who decided to play on the "No such thing as a Unix virus" bandwagon, read the following site (unless you're afraid to find out you're mistaken, of course): [http://www.kernelthread.com/publications/security/vunix.html](http://www.kernelthread.com/publications/security/vunix.html) And no, I'm not an HTML genius in case you felt the need to point it out and are too lazy to copy and paste something into your address bar. As far as the (in my opinion) stupid debate as to what is better, Mac or PC...I prefer a PC but if someone decides they like a Mac, good for them. I'm sure that if I were to really sit down and use one and learn how to use one, I'd find plenty in there to like. To all the Windows naysayers, if you configure XP/Server2003 properly, it is quite secure, however there are a lot of little things that are frequently overlooked in regards to security settings. To be honest, I really don't use a lot of Microsoft's built in software (WMP or Internet Explorer). I prefer Firefox, Winamp, O&O Defrag and the like. To be quite honest, I never have a problem with XP crashing on me unless, of course I decide to experiment with system files or decide not to listen to a warning about installing a particular piece of software, but then again, you know you use a crappy OS when you have to break it yourself in order to have to fix something. Or maybe having next to zero difficulty with XP makes me an inferior being. I dunno, I'm sure saying i like anything by MS is going to make me quite flammable. I also run quite the backup schedule, every Sunday I run a full backup of my C:\ and every other day I run an incremental backup. Therefore, no matter what happens (barring my backup drive failing completely), I simply re-install and within an hour i have my machine running exactly as i did the day before. Anyone that says that Microsoft sucks should check out the Surface...that thing looks cooler than 90% of the Star Wars Trilogies (and for me that's saying a lot). All told, I think everyone should be able to have their own opinion without being attacked or ridiculed. In my opinion, if you have to attack someone for having an opinion different from your own, maybe you feel threatened by the fact that someone might think differently from you. I, of course am not talking about people who spout false information and protect that as "opinion", but still those people should not be attacked, merely corrected. As far as the Mac vs PC commercials go, I do find them comical. I also believe that it's up to individuals to educate themselves as to what's true or not. I mean we've had commercials for over 100 years now, you'd think as a collective species we'd have the rough idea that you can't take what's said in an advertisement at face value. Of course, we, as humans, tend to be lazy and we also tend to view researching and educating ourselves as "hard work", as if sitting in front of a computer typing a few words into a Google search bar and doing some reading could even compare to putting up a roof, or working in a mine...which is what I classify as hard work. Then there is the topic of people spouting "This is better!" and whatnot. I've seen so many people show off their new Dell computers (generally a 400$ CPU in a 40$ motherboard) and tell me that it's "Top of the Line". Of course, they want to believe that as they just shelled out 1200$ for the damned machine, and, of course, the salesman...as honest as they tend to be...told them that it was. I usually don't have the heart to tell them that they got ripped off, unless of course they really pry for my opinion. Anyway, I think I've ranted enough, if you've gotten this far, thanks for reading.

Get a life and stop arguing.

It's extremely funny when Steve Jobs touts that he is some kind of innovator. His first foray into computers (GUI) was to rework innovations from Xerox and call it his own (very innovative). Then, at the turn of the century, he completely abandons the 'so-called' superior operating system for OSX. Little things like 'multi-threading' were already an innovation in Windows before being copied into OSX. Those of us who program computers have seen other elements that were "borrowed" from Windows, as well. They do have a knack for making pretty screen elements, but that is not an innovation as much as it is a color/style choice. Underneath it all, it is a button that responds to click events, no more. Microsoft has done the right thing by working on the underpinnings and security before putting visual effects on top. For me, the problem is that you cannot run world-class software like Oracle, SQL Server or Visual FoxPro on a Mac. There are very few IT professionals who take the Mac seriously for this reason. One good thing is that Apple is finally getting it; they MUST support Windows on their computers if for any hope for success. Otherwise, why bother with the Intel/Windows compatibility, OSX by itself should be good enough. My point is that you do not see this happening on the other side. Also, just a few short years ago "Intel" was the enemy, what happened there? More hilarious psychology from the Macies. Those of you denial can keep on believing the BS that is passed down to you. Fortunately 95% of us are not buying it! May the Truth set you free! Mr. Truth

X was there in 1984, the time of the mac -- it was ugly. but there were other gui systems for Unix before X got standardized. Mac OS and Windows == Granny OS. Linux == Power User OS. Don't Support The Microsoft Racket No Suse, No Xandros.

All I have to say is Macs suck, plain and simple. I want to play Counter-Strike, CS Source, etc. but guess what? Oh thats right, Mac's suck so I can't ! It's true what they say, Mac's are for retards, for people who are to ignorant to learn how to use a real computer or simply because they are blinded by all the pretty colors... Apple has great marketing skills, thats it. Shit for an OS, shit for an mp3 player, and they have to charge 30X more than their competition or else they wouldn't make any money. (Remember they own like .4545% of the market share, and I wonder why that is??)

Each to their own I guess. PC users like PC's, MAC users like MACs. The thing that really fucks me off is the way MAC users make stupid little spam comments in forums threads about how the PC sucks. An example being, I posted in a forum that I was going to build myself a new machine primarily for Distributed Computing (Boinc), but it would also be a backup server for my stats BS. Straight away I get a 'Use a MAC, you don't need a backup' type shitty post. Other similar posts in threads such as I've got a problem with so and so software not working right etc, and you get a spam post saying something like 'Get a MAC, that will solve your problem'. What is it with MAC owners, are they so immature or insecure about their machines that they feel the need to shit on windows users at every opertunity??? Truth of the matter is, MACs are not so different from the windows based pc, hardware is similar i.e. a motherboard, some ram, a cpu (intel), hard drive and thats pretty much to it. The difference is the way it comes as it comes, no upgrades, no personal preference to what specs it has, and the half arsed osX pos. You can rant on all you like about MAC osX is great etc, it wasn't even written by Apple, it's unix based -- over 40 years old for fucks sake! The difference being that it's a cut down fisherprice version of unix. The last Apple os9 wasn't written by Apple either, that was BeOS. Apple haven't written their own OS since the early days when the MAC's couldn't multitask and were basically oversized calculators. In our design department at work, they had several MAC's (I think they were G5's) which were used with some Adobe software (probably Illustrator) that handled all the design state from early conseption through to final draft and then the packaging planning etc. Within 6 months of having them installed and the users trained up (to use the OS), they ripped the lot out and replaced them with Dells the reason being that the MAC's were slow and unreliable, 2 of the machines seemed to be permanently out for repair only to come back and fuck up again. So far and a year down the road, the Dells are merrily chugging along doing the same job for less money with more stability and at a faster rate. There is no longer any reason to have a MAC over a PC, the PC's are faster, cheaper, have more software, easier to upgrade, and customisable. If windows based PC's are BMW's, MAC's are Skoda's -- Skoda's with a porshe price tag! Here's a good one for ya... [http://mac-sucks.com/switch_why.php](http://mac-sucks.com/switch_why.php)

Lol! You guys make me laugh! I mean, you little PC retards just come here and talk without even having any fucking knowledge about computers in general and Macs is particular... :-P Just because you're soooo frustrated with your shitty hardware and shitty OSs you need to insult other people's preferences, you know? You can just get a Mac and be happy! Unless you can come up with worthy facts (Not the stereotypes you are all used to, shitheads!) and write in proper English... Don't bother witing here... Goodnight fuckers! P.S: And stop inventing those crappy stories (I had a Mac once and...), everyone knows that they are NOT true... Don't you think that you can fool a Mac user...

how is pc hardware shitty?

OK, I have just read thiswhole post, and want to throw in my 2 cents. First off I use bith computers alot, and I hate the Mac for the following reasons. 1) I always feel my desktop is cluttered espially when I got several windows open because there is no real way to navigate between them, 2) they are so slow; on our school's new inel macs it takes like 20-30 sec to open up Microsoft Word (apple works takes just as long) however on my old laptop with pentium 3, and 128 ram, it doesn't even take a sec, the same goes for the interenet (firefox, safrie). Macs are not better with making movies, photo editing etc. I use both machines to do both at my school, and the PC blow away the MACs. In fact I got so fed up with the Macs at my school that I started bringing my laptop with wi-fi so I didn't have to use them. Just a couple weeks ago in my digital photo class my teacher is like (the new iphoto is so awesome, you can actully CHOOSE what pictures you want to import from your camera) and I'm just sitting there thinking "Are you serious" that feature was built into XP a long time ago. As soon as you plug in the camera, you get the option what photos you want off. I will never buy an ipod (I have a sansa e200 something and love it you don't need any software to put music on it!!), will never buy itunes, because what I have read at apple's web site is that you first need to uninstall it, restart, delete the itunes folder in your program files, restart, and then do something to the computer cache. It seems that apple doesn't want people uninstalling their software. If someone bought me anything from apple (Mac, ipod, iphone) I would either sell it at a pown shop, or burn it, and I don't care if it was my Grandma who bought it. Anyways that's my 2 cents.

macs are faster then pc's but they have no compatability. i dunt see the reason for the ieverything either. they jsut take applications and add an i in front. its kinda pointless. my brother just bought a mac and he sat there for the frst 10 mins jsut staring at it ad went huh? so i cant get any software for this thing? and it was about uhhhhhhh 5 time more expensive then my pc. lol in conclusion macs arent the greatest and the most compatable and the cheapest. so they kinda suck? lmao im bored now ima go do sumffin productive. oh and macs have the biggest flaws with the password on the logon cuz anyone can go and change the password or in their case passwd just by accessing the DOS or w.e i guess lmao. its stupid

oh and the fact that Mac's need to run XP or Vista on them jsut to get compatability si even funnnier

Lol, Moe... It's funny when people don't know shit of what they're talking about.. And even lie to pretend that they do... 1.- No compatibility? PCs don't have any compatibility! On a Mac you can run OS X, Windows and Linux legally... Try that on a PC... hahaha 2.- The reason for the "iWhatever" is marketing. Pure and simple. 3.- Do you think you can fool us, intelligent Mac users? You probably don't even have a brother! hahaha! 4.- Mac software quality is much higher than PC software quality... Almost all PC apps look like their UI was deigned by a monkey with a typewriter... 5.- Macs are not 5x more expensive than PCs! The 90s are calling! They want their anti-Mac argument back! Do your research, mate! They are the same price now! 6.- See, it's easy to see that you're a FUCKING LIAR. Macs dont have "DOS", hahahahaha. You cannot change a Mac's password without being the administrator of that Mac... Mac OS X was built with security in mind... Unlike Windows... Mwahaha! Enjoy your viruses, asshole!!! And learn how to write, dumb ass!

Too funny!

If macs are truly superior, then why the shift to Intel processors (which were being ragged on in the past by all of Steve Job's flock.) and why do they need to support Windows now (Bootcamp/Latest 'Cat' software)? It seems to me that if OSX is truly superior, it could just stand on its own and leave us bad 'ol Windows users alone. I'm sure at least one of you will have some really fucked-up bass-ackward logic to justify that...I can't wait to hear it! May the truth set you free...get out of the orchard! Mr. Truth

@ Mr. Truth PowerPC processors WERE better. In G3 times, the Pentium II had nothing to do against it. Apple even run some ads about the whole subject. The beginnings of the G4 were as promising as the "G3 times" were... Remember that this was back in 1999! But as time passed, the G4 got superseded by the Pentium IV and then by the Centrino... That and the inability of Freescale to provide faster G4 cores made Apple ask IBM for a G4 replacement. So IBM got the G5 out if its back pocket, but since it was a descendant from their POWER line of server processors... And, as you can imagine, server processors are designed for power, not energy saving, which made it impossible to fit them into PBs and iBs... Apple had no choice other than going with Intel as their roadmap was better too... PowerPCs had almost no such thing as a roadmap... :·P A lil' bit of history for you, sir... And they have no need to support Windows (In fact, they don't even do it, get your facts straight), it's a marketing strategy. In fact, if you look in any support forum you'll see that there are tons of "How do I uninstall Windows from my Mac" posts. It's funny, but you're the one that doesn't see the coherent claims here... Enjoy your viruses!

@ Scene-dude Your history lesson, of course, is false. Older macs with the PowerPC processor were much slower than their Pentium rivals. My original point was more about how the 'mindless Apple faithful' love to trash the 'enemy' (a laughable mentality) because Intel were aligned with the Windows OS. I'm sure if Apple did not switch to Intel processors we would still be hearing that same BS today. Secondly, you are wrong about the 'need' to support Windows...They ARE doing it. What do you think 'BootCamp' is? A military gaming program? And the latest OSX has it built in. I know why they are doing it...they need to convert windows users over because, obviously, OSX is not doing it on its own. Have fun living in a vacuum!

@ Mr. Truth 1.- PowerPCs much slower? You clearly haven't used a Mac in you whole life, sir... The G3 was a good processor throughout its life, same with the G4 except when the G5 reign came. The G5 was literally a beast, it was the first 64-bit processor in the whole consumer market... And it could natively run both 32 and 64-bit code... With no hassle... And you PC users need separate version of your OSs... Both Windows and Linux... :·D And Intel was not really much of a Microsoft's ally... After all, couldn't you install Linux, FreeBSD, etc on an Intel chip? 2.- Apple supports the installation of Windows on Mac, but doesn't support it. If you experience a problem or issue, you're gonna have to call Redmond... And why do you say "[...]because, obviously, OSX is not doing it on its own." What, were Macs before Intel useless because they couldn't run Windows? Now that's some really fucked-up bass-ackward logic! hahaha So yeah, enjoy your viruses!

iMac, stop being an elitist son of a bitch....or just a bitch in general. My XP could eat your Mac alive and spit the bones out on the floor. Fuck you.

This is pathetic coming from windows users who talk about how mac users are computer illiterate. If this guy from the video is serious he must be some kind of sub retard. If you can't use a mac you have to be mentally deficient.

I just want to wish everyone a merry christmas and happy new year. Take care. May the Truth set you free! Mr.Truth

I did alot of research on apples and pc's, this is what I found. An apple with the same parts as a PC is much much more expensive. With a PC you can get better quality parts for less. You have a choice with a PC! PC's are easy to upgrade and repair. You can take them apart, use alot of different parts on them. You can keep upgrading a PC forever vs throwing it away buying a new one. PC's come in all styles and types, from clear cases to any color almost. Better then just white with a fruit on it. Viruses..... PC's get more viruses cause more people use them. Use this real life example, if you entered a room with 2 people your chances of catching a cold are low, now with 2000 people your chances would go up. You must educate yourself, you can't pay money to avoid an education on computers. Educated PC users don't get viruses. It's like saying you will buy a peddle bike and not a car so you can avoid gas prices. You lose out on alot by doing that. Why someone would buy a computer that costs twice as much that can do only a fraction of the things is beyond me. I guess if you make a bag of magic beans, someone will buy it, it shows the stupidy and ignorence of people.

in india we use alot of computer for network

>

> >Mac's don't have virus' because they're based on Unix. >

Macs don't have viruses because they are not so wide spred as windows systems. When they reach some high percentage of a market share people will find ways to create viruses for it. Don't get me wrong -- I'm a mac user too :)

Oh Matt G. you seem to think that macs are all high and mighty, well at least when a pc gives you its screen of death, you don't have to replace 90% of the computer to fix it. Oh and to further knock you off your mac pedestal, Apple released a game system in 1996, called the pip-pin. not only is that the dumbest name for a game console, they made the thing 600$. If you count inflation, that makes it the 2nd most expensive game system EVER. And I would love to see a mac THAT cheap. Be real that shit'l cost ya a good 2300$, 1300$ is for a low end ibook, with parts that could be in a pc for 650$ Bottom line Macs are over-priced pieces of shit. Oh and for every ,premium priced, mac program there is, there are 5 that can work just as well on the pc; and at least 3 of em will be FREE. I don't care if macs don't get viruses, 'cause they seem to repel FREEWARE just as well. Oh, and macs aren't hack proof, one guy broke in through Safari in 10 SECONDS! He did that exploiting a PROGRAMMING BUG, how does that exist, because Apple didn't catch a fatal error in their code. I don't want those people making my computer. If macs were as awesome as you make them sound; then shouldn't Apple have more than a measly 6% market share!? Make the ultimate upgrade, to a PC.

I hate macs, the only time ANYTHING made by apple has entered my house was when I got a Preforma 6400/180 for FREE. When i got it home, the first thing that I said was, "how do you open this thing?" Really, it was so complicated I had to google it to figure it out. Then when I tried, I go "Damn, this thing is a fortress." It took me half an hour to open that thing up, and another to put it back together. Then i tried to hook it up, only to that EVERY plug is custom made, save for the power and sound adapters. So i can't hook it up, well I at least want to know of it powers on. i plug it in and, can't find the on button. Then after 5 minutes of looking, I find it on the BACK. This thing has the most boneheaded design that I have ever seen. this thing is an unnecessary headache, I want it gone, and it better be soon.

I'm a new mom and this is funny as heck.

I'm not actually a fan of Apple, but I'm not much into Microsoft (or other alternatives) either. Truth is, every platform, hardware and software is imperfect. You just gotta find what something is the best for (sometimes you use both for different purposes).