Fabian Pascal Loves Me

Congratulations. Now get yourself a Wikipedia page and call it a day.

Aargh! I missed another great discussion thread(s)! I guess that is the problem for checking the site often throughout the day and only looking for new posts and not new comments. Your discussions with Fabian over Relational Model reminds me of Thomas Tomiczek of Thona Consulting and ORM. Many people gradually start to see the light on ORM but vow never to use his products or services because of his attitude. For a sample, start with this thread: [Debunking the Thona Theory](http://weblogs.asp.net/jgonzalez/archive/2004/08/10/211955.aspx). For even more detail, read the forum threads referenced in the post. To counter Thomas, you will often see Frans Bouma involved in the discussions. He always comes at it from more a helping and teaching perspective which is quite refreshing after watching people get tore up by Thomas.

I checked out his site. There isn't really a cohesive declaration of what his arguments are, at least that I could readily find. There are several papers that can be downloaded for a fee (yeah right!), and under the "content" area, there are lots of little mini-rants, that seem to chiefly be overviews of arguments he's taken part in. However, these do little to help a newcomer understand where he is coming from. It seems to me, if he wants to get his message across, he should do the following: * Post a succinct summation of his issues with the so-called relational systems in use today. * Present some proposed solutions to the problems. In other words, how could a product be implemented to solve these issues. The site could probably appeal to a much larger audience if the presentation were adapted such. Give at least some reasonable preview of the information, and I might consider purchasing a paper. The policy against deep-linking seems a little questionable as well, especially when the home page has so little useful information.

Deane, just so you know you're not alone in the universe, [have a read](http://groups.google.com/group/comp.databases.oracle.misc/tree/browse_frm/thread/df51365a5f7bb465/e821f61a5ba8e723?rnum=1&q=%22fabian+pascal%22&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fcomp.databases.oracle.misc%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2Fdf51365a5f7bb465%2Fe821f61a5ba8e723%3Ftvc%3D1%26q%3D%22fabian+pascal%22%26#doc_e821f61a5ba8e723). ;-)

Deane, Even though you have been advised of the distinction, you don't seem to comprehend the difference between stupidity and ignorance. Aside from that you were exhibiting the latter; but given the insistence to confuse the two, you've now displayed some of the former too. The fact that you have no clue as to what is wrong with your statement is further validation to that effect. The fact that you don't care with what content you attract traffic, as long as you do attract it, is also a good indicator of your character and competence. And if you attract anybody like the two commenters, they get what they deserve. People seem to belabor under some delusion that they do me a favor if they pay attention to what I write or say. If they don't do it because they don't like my style, or because they don't want to invest any time, effort, or funds to educate themselves, who the hell cares? I am not going to pay the price, and possibly not even they, but those who hire them.

Am I the only person who's never heard of this guy. Sorry Deane, I don't think being quoted by a guy that the vast majority of us are unaware of qualifies you for your own wikipedia page.

Here's the best quote from the page linked above: >A database is a tool. When the use of the tool provides value to a business or organization it is a plus: When it does not it is a negative. That the person wielding the hammer is more or less competent is a diversion. So true.

If you don't have any education on what data management and databases are, then all you think it is is a tool. As I said before, you guys should have stuck to hammers, because you dk the difference between them and DBMSs. Unskilled and unaware of it.

Wow! Fabian himself even condescends to grace this forum with his lack of grace. And he still hasn't answered your main question; >And how exactly can that be so bad? He seems to think that the only reason you're doing this is to get site traffic, when in truth I think you'd rather just have him answer the question. I'd also like to hear him answer the points Tim makes above. He'd save himself a lot of grief by doing that. And getting over himself would help as well.

I have a free web site with years of free material, 3 books, several free Net columns, and yet the I am supposed to answer any ignorant question that pops up again and again and again. Only those lacking intellect, lazy, or unskilled and unaware of it can demand to be spoonfed what they ought to have learned on their own before they got involved in the database field.

Incidentally, if anybody bothered to look, they would have found a very short answer here: [http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/2274591.htm.](http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/2274591.htm.) But that is not enough for somebody who does not know ANY fundamentals, who really wants to learn and understand what he is doing and why.

Oops, sorry. I confused two pages. The one I am referring to will be posted next Friday when I update the site, and anybody interested can check it out.

[Practical Issues in Database Management](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201485559/qid=1128137317/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-5233595-7962259?v=glance&s=books) by Fabian Pascal **Customers who bought this book also bought**: [ How to Win Friends & Influence People](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671723650/103-5233595-7962259?v=glance) by Dale Carnegie.

Deane, please never remove this page...it may be the only record of Fabian making a mistake!!!

bwahaha. "here's my argument: 404" "oh, never mind -- i'll have one next week." from what i can read, mr. fabian shares more with internet cranks than anything else.

well, it's a wonder that you can read at all. but then, you can ONLY read, you cannot understand. Only vociferous ignorami like the lot here (and I doubt you know what that means) can ignore their total ignorance of the field in which they work, while finding the confusion of two web pages an error of significance. How sad for the IT industry in particular and the US in general, that they produce such specimens. But then, if anybody wonders why the US is going down the drain, they shouldn't: the reason is all too obvious.

Well, on that note -- this conversation is over. Until next time, Pascal. And we both know there's going to be a next time...